WTF Was That?
Last night (Nov. 13, 2008), KPFT aired a program about which General Manager Duane Bradley and I have received a slew of email and calls. As Program Director, I wanted to offer an apology to those who may have been offended by perceptions of slights to listeners who called in, and provide a brief explanation to listeners about Thursday night’s special.
During the timeslot normally occupied by The Other Side, a host who identified herself as Jennifer (one listener pointed me to this online thread for more information — the host is reportedly “jenniforhillary” and “murphy” was the guest) did a program on the organization PUMA (People United Means Action) with its founder, Darragh Murphy. PUMA is the organization formerly known by Party Unity My Ass, which refused to support Barack Obama in the presidential election over issues related to Hillary Clinton.
The show opened with its host stating she was a former Democrat who voted straight-ticket Republican this year. The show itself continued with a brief interview and a call-in segment that was at some points civil, but was frankly mostly ugly, with frequent interruptions and shouting. Once the show was done, the general manager and I received a flood of calls and email, all of it negative, about the tone of the program, the treatment of callers and actions of the host and guest.
The aired program was a pledge fulfillment from a previous drive, the details of which are a bit involved to get into. What listeners heard was a one-time program. To put to rest the most popular question, The Other Side is coming back next week in the timeslot listeners are used to hearing it. The Other Side has not been canceled.
The second most popular question I have received was: are these people serious?
Perhaps that question is couched in the knowledge that The Other Side is infamous for all flavors of satire. From The Other Side co-host Staci Davis’ stint on the show in-character as Sarah Palin to Glen Urbach’s sarcastic rants about the GOP, The Other Side is known for over-the-top humor. Perhaps the question is also steeped in the opinion (as some indicated) that the allegations offered are almost a year old, seem moot given Obama’s victory Nov. 4, and have been virtually disowned by Clinton herself.
In the case of last night’s program, the individuals on the air are real and sincere in their beliefs.
Almost every listener call and email cited the manner callers were treated as problematic. Examples of yelling matches, people talking over callers they disagreed with or disputed an account from, etc. were cited by listeners.
Days prior to the program, I did provide a copy of KPFT’s policies to our in-studio guest, including our phone call policy. Point four of those policies states “Regulate calls fairly… Do not cut off or hang up on callers.” In addition, prior to the program, I was told that all efforts would be made to keep the conversation principled and depersonalized so to best represent the organization. With that knowledge (and having provided station policy beforehand), I admit I did not believe I needed to direct anyone to refrain from shouting at a caller or cutting anyone off. My mistake.
I do not believe the host or guest were willfully misleading in their statements to me about how they wanted the conversation to go. Being in the studio and discussing issues in which one has a personal stake, I have found, makes people react in unusual ways.
Following the program, for which I was the board operator, I advised the host on appropriate handling of calls. KPFT listeners expect to be given an opportunity to talk, debate and dialogue because that is part of community radio’s culture. One spends more time cutting off (in the process alienating listeners) and arguing with a caller whose version of events you dispute, I explained to the host, than one does by simply letting the caller talk and correcting disagreements after they have finished a sentence. I felt Jennifer accepted that feedback well.
Given listener response, I doubt we will do this kind of show again. And though I’m reluctant to spend lots of time writing about it and thus drawing more attention to a late-evening hour of programming, I believe it best to give listeners some answers to their concerns. I appreciate all the calls and email the station has received. We do listen.
Thank you for supporting KPFT, even when we annoy you or make you scratch your head.
Thank you Ernesto! I was one of the people who wrote you last night. As I said then, they did raise some interesting points about the Democratic Party’s primary policies (hee-he, alliteration) that would certainly be worthwhile discussing. It seems to me that the majority of KPFT’s listeners who aren’t anarchists, communists, libertarians or socialists are indeed democrats and would and should be concerned with the policies of the democratic party. However, the show took a very different path. I don’t need to rehash why, but everyone who was listening surely knows. Thank you for addressing this in awesome and diplomatic fashion. Last night was the first time I ever wrote you with a complaint and it’s good to know that when something absurd and ridiculous seems to be happening with OUR radio station, those concerns are appropriately addressed.
Douglas A. Wood
14 November 2008 at 2:10 pm
Yet another PUMA EPIC FAIL… [UPDATED ... now with *more* FAIL]…
Just found this over at FEC web site listed under "NOTICE OF FAILURE TO FILE." It was dated November 3rd: DARRAGH C MURPHY, TREASURER P. U. M. A. PAC PEOPLE UNITED MEANS ACTION [address redacted by Rumproast] IDENTIFICATION NUMBER: C00451369 …
Rumproast
14 November 2008 at 6:29 pm
I also wrote last night to complain, and was heartened by Ernesto’s rapid response. I don’t recall a more noxious, unreceptive, and disrespectful host ever appearing on a KPFT call-in show. Callers John, Bobby, Rick, Chris, and Theresa deserve Purple Hearts for their valiant attempts at dialog.
Lee Amack
15 November 2008 at 1:06 am
Thanks for the comments, y’all! Two brief asides.
First — and sorry for not saying this in my original post — several emails and calls on this said there were legitimate issues worth discussing, such as the caucus system in Texas. I agree. People are hungry for discussions about improving the electoral process certainly — from the electoral college to caucuses to roadblocks faced by third parties. In that sense, the small window the show presented to bring up said issues was positive, even though the potential was not fully realized.
Second, as a testament to the tolerance of our listeners, most people were not so much upset by the host/guest on the air, though listeners took exception to the presentation of facts. Instead listeners said they were very disgusted by the tone of the program — cutting off people, inflammatory comments (one remark several people cited was a claim Obama supported compulsory service and mention of “brown shirts” — a not-so-veiled comparison to Nazism) and so forth. KPFT has many open-minded listeners and most gave the show a chance, from what I was told. Once the debates escalated in a troubling fashion, listeners were put off by it.
Thanks for your emails and appreciate you giving feedback here as well.
Ernesto Aguilar
15 November 2008 at 11:31 am
On the page describing PUMA PAC on her web site, http://blog.pumapac.org/about/, Darragh Murphy refers to Barack Obama as an “illegitimate candidate.” During the program, Jennifer insistently portrayed his election as a criminal conspiracy, and declared more than once “I don’t think he won.” Murphy at least conceded that Obama was the President-elect, but asserted that he was “elected by willful ignorance”.
“Willful ignorance” might be an apt description of the analytical methodology these women brought to the subject of this program. Do they not know, for example, that a political party is free to choose its candidates however it sees fit? Their selection processes are open to criticism, of course. Flaws in our system of electoral politics are a perennial topic, discussed often on KPFT. But this program took a different tack altogether. Jennifer and Murphy were not criticizing the process, they were alleging that it was criminal, fraudulent, and un-American. This is preposterous prima facie. Do they genuinely not understand this?
When John, the first non-PUMA caller, tried to discuss the campaign rationally, Murphy dismissed his “silly arguments”, saying “John’s full of baloney.” Then Jennifer, apropos of nothing John had said, but evidently wanting to return the focus to her agenda, related her caucus experience, and asserted that “the Texas caucus vote was completely fraudulent”. With that, she hung up on John to take another PUMA caller.
Jennifer’s allegation that she was lied to at the caucus came up repeatedly. Evidently she had never been to a Democratic precinct convention before, nor had she attended any meetings or events of local Democratic clubs, or visited the Texas Democratic Party website (then or since then) where she might have learned how precinct conventions are run. Fair enough: you don’t have to be a party activist to caucus. Perhaps she wasn’t aware that the overwhelming majority of attendees at this year’s caucuses were, like her, first-timers. She probably didn’t know that in many precincts there was no precinct captain–no one in charge. That was the case in my precinct. There was one fellow who claimed to be in charge, who I later learned was a Republican. Fortunately, there were a few Democratic activists present at my precinct convention, and no sabotage or “cheating” occurred.
Jennifer says she and her family were lied to by a tall white man with a button that said “I’m in charge”, who told them that they could go home and that their votes would be counted. In my precinct, the convention was delayed for hours because people were still voting in the primary. When it finally began, many of the attendees were anxious to get home. They were told that once they had signed in and indicated their candidate preference, if they didn’t want to wait around to vote on delegates to the Senate district convention and the other business, they could leave. I’m not sure whether this is a normal procedure–it didn’t come up in previous precinct conventions I’ve attended–but it was a reasonable thing to do that night, and there was nothing devious or unfair about it. The number of delegates to the district convention the supporters of each candidate are entitled to select is, per the published rules, determined by the number of supporters on the sign-in sheets.
So, if Jennifer signed in and indicated her support for Clinton–which one must assume, assuming she has a modicum of common sense–her vote would have been counted in determining the number of Clinton delegates. If most of the Clinton supporters opted to leave early, of course, or if few that remained were interested in attending the district convention, there’s no guarantee that the full complement of Clinton delegates were elected.
In my precinct, Clinton delegates and alternates were elected, but most of them were no-shows at the district convention. That turned out to be an all-day affair. The call to order was delayed for hours because many delegations were lacking credentials, as the reports from precinct conventions had never been turned in. How much of this was due to Republican sabotage, and how much to simple incompetence, I don’t know.
At any rate, participation in the caucus system in Texas requires a substantial commitment of one’s time. That’s true in any election year, and this year it was doubly true. In my personal experience, here in Harris County, Obama supporters were, on average, more committed. We sacrificed our time. Many Clinton supporters did as well. Many, like Jennifer, did not.
Late in the program, when caller Theresa attempted to relate her own experiences in the caucus, Murphy and Jennifer interrupted, adopting a condescending tone while displaying apparent ignorance that there is a human element in the process.
Murphy: “You know that there was a 16% difference in your 2-step process, between the caucus and the primary, right? You know that that is mathematically impossible to have happened, right?”
Jennifer: “Hundreds of thousands of people didn’t get their vote counted properly. It means there was fraud, it means people cheated, and that’s un-American!”
No, the fraud here is on the part of the PUMA people. I can understand that they are disappointed with the outcome of the election, and perhaps that makes it difficult for them to view things clearly, but it doesn’t excuse their unwillingness to listen, or their vigorous effort to construct and defend a fantasy world.
In the real world, people who say they “proudly voted a straight Republican ticket this year” are not the kind of people Democrats want choosing our ticket. You have no standing to complain.
Finally, people who say “When you look at bad behavior this year, it was simply Democrats and Obama” have mark themselves as defiantly, willfully ignorant. Is that ignorance genuine?
Lee Amack
16 November 2008 at 5:50 am
Well done, Lee, and that’s slightly different than, “Well said.” We all know that things are not mechanical and perfect in politics. The very fault in it, that it’s subject to the whims, ambitions, venality and pettiness of people, is the thing that makes it able to serve people, if the process of “democratic politics” (small d) is properly hedged and channeled. Toward the end, I was a Hillary partisan (well, a “leaner”) all the while that I recognized that Obama would be good for the country. And the Obama volunteers were the ones who put the leather on the road (and on the phones) far more effectively, long-term, than the Clinton volunteers were willing to do, regardless of their enthusiasms. And that, not numbers, is what the “caucus” process is meant to measure; it’s a different kind of poll, and what it measures is factored into the final result, and it has value. Dirty, messy, often unfair and dishonest — but flowers don’t really grow so well in hydroponics, they come out scraggly and don’t survive stress well, but they grow just fine in dirt, and they smell ever so much sweeter. Thanks, again, to Ernesto and to you for your long and thoughtful note – heck, what happened on the air was worth it for the chance to witness the decent impulses and analyses that it engendered; actually, I suspect that “Jennifer” might say something similar if we asked.
Steve Jolly
16 November 2008 at 10:12 pm
Um – should always proofread before posting! Hope my appreciation seeped in through my lousy syntax.
A thought that I left out, and it’s perhaps the only important one: incidents like the one on Thursday night, and the staff’s and community’s response to it, just kinda captures in one series of snapshots the heart of what makes KPFT so easy to cherish, at least for me. What a gift to be around this — how easy it is to pledge when I remember these moments, how we all elbow each other out of enthusiasm and sometimes intent, and how something essential, unique, and magic is synthesized, the fertilizer in the dirt.
Steve Jolly
16 November 2008 at 10:22 pm
I listened to the show and am amazed that anyone accuses the 2 women of shouting. Both have very soft voices and could not yell if they had to. The issues they tried to discuss are well known on the blogpsphere and it’surprising to hear the callers and the commenters here show such outrage that anyone would want to discuss them. The callers kept cutting off the host and guest, not the other way around and when they kept repeating the same point over and over and refused to move the discussion on, were they asked to end the call and let others have a chance to go on air. They would not do that. Why is Texas so afraid of honest discussion?
D. Lamp
17 November 2008 at 12:26 pm
I listened to the radio. Actually, the male callers are the ones that were rude and over-bearing! This sounds like another attempt to suppress the American Voice.
Just because someone was “not” in agreement with the two individuals representing “their” side of a situation, I don’t think it is fair to say there were any tactics used that were unprofessional. So sad!! Is there no where to go anymore that will listen to the Voice of America??
God Bless and Save the U.S. and Free Speech!!
Listener
17 November 2008 at 12:28 pm
Dear Ernesto,
First, I am so very disappointed that you did not even take the time to verify your information. Party Unity my Ass is a group started by Will Bowers (I believe he is in California). Mr. Bowers also was upset with the DNP this year and their selection of Senator Obama and he has been on MSNBC, CNN, and many other forums discussing his group; in fact once he and Murphy, the founder of People United Means Action were on the same show if I am not mistaken. I think that you owe your viewers, and Mrs. Murphy, a clarification AND an apology as you and I went over this in great detail.
Second, as far as the way callers were treated, I felt we did a very good job. I suppose you could say we have a classic difference of opinion. As a host, I did not realize that I had to listen to patently untrue statements being presented as ‘facts’ (i.e. the caller who kept insisting that there was evidence of caucus fraud on behalf of Mrs. Clinton but could not site a single example of said fraud) AND I was not aware that I had to listen to callers who were verbally abusive and were not aware of the facts. Case in point is the FACT that a bill that has been put forth by Charlie Rangle called the National Service Bill. In fact, Rahm Emmanuel even spoke of it last week on one of the national news programs. For those of you who are unaware of this bill let me summarize the scariest part of it: it calles for MANDATORY Universal civilian service for EVERY American between the agesof 18 and 42. For three months the US Government could demand that you leave your job, your family, and your life and SERVE the President. As Mr. Emmanuel put it, and this is a quote “It is time for a real patriot act….” YOU and some of your viewers may not see the similarity between this act and the brown shirts under Hitler, but as a jewish woman I not only see it but I also have the right to SAY I see it. I think it would be an excellent idea for ALL KPFT viewers to do their own research and look up this bill and see for themselves.
I also want to state that I would very much like to do a follow up show on the caucus fraud. I would like to bring the female black democrat attorney that filed the class action (her name escapes me and I had a hard drive crash of my emails but I will get you here name asap) law suit on behalf of DEMOCRATIC voters defrauded at the polls in Texas as well as a first hand account of PUMA members who went to the Denver Convention and witnessed other horrific acts of fraud. I would also like to bring some of the former members of HILL R WE group who were harassed and threatened (these are women who are Latino and Black) while holding signs for Hillary BY Obama supporters to speak about other forms of caucus misbehavior.
I think that KPFT listeners are good people, for the most part, but I think that most of them–and America for that matter–are loath to hear the truth for some reason at this point in our history. I think that they are progressive and intelligent enought to be up for the challenge, and I have no problem bring guests and FACTS and support for those facts to the table, if given the chance. All I’m asking for is a chance. I would hope that KPFT would be open to this, because if not we are in more trouble than I thought.
Jennifer
Former Democrat, Current PUMA, American
jennfer
17 November 2008 at 1:25 pm
I have listened to many of the online PUMA “blogcasts,” as a kind of sick, masochistic hobby. For the most part, they are disorganized, technically inept yak-fests that leave the listener feeling as though he or she is a teleptahic voyeur in an asylum filled with aging, disappointed cast-offs from the high school Prom Committee.
This show was different, though, in that it was the first time the PUMAs ever faced an audience that wasn’t drawn from their own insular, hermetically sealed, tail-chasing community of political conspiracy addicts and Aggrieved Warrior Women. Worse (for them) the audience was composed of politically-aware listeners who were expecting slick, snarky satire or — at least — some semblance of informed dialogue. Regular KPFT tuners, I’m sure, were shocked to find their regular programming replaced with the audio equivalent of “The Blair Witch Project,” as performed by Alex Jones and the ghost of John Birch in drag, under the direction of Eulalie Mackechnie Shinn and channeled by Madame Blavatsky.
Drowning-from-the-outset host “Jennifer” opened the show with a quavering nonsense declaration that sounded for all the world as though it were being read at gunpoint by a bank-robbery hostage. She somehow maintained that verge-of-panic tone through the remainder of the hour, although — thankfully — she was able to avoid blurting out some of her more fiery online rhetoric, as in her recent post at Lynette Long’s blog declaring that she would like to “shoot the cock off” any man who lays a hand on a woman.
The rest is history, and pure comedy gold. “Jennifer” and her guest (the nominal “leader” of the PUMA movement, as if such a thing were possible) relentlessly stonewalled a legion of polite, knowledgeable callers with rapid-fire overtalk, breathless call-dumps and the blanket insistence that anyone who disagreed with them — man or woman, and regardless of their own intimate knowledge of issues or the mechanics of the Texas caucuses — was a dumb dootie-head.
I laughed my butt off. And I would only caution the staff of The Other Side that they could face serious competition should KPFT decide to run a weekly “PUMA-Toon Amateur Crazy Hour.” When reality becomes parody, why pay for it? PUMAs will humiliate themselves for free, and you don’t have to fill out the AFTRA paperwork.
OneWithLandru
17 November 2008 at 1:28 pm
PS: I’m a broadcast producer, so I understand EXACTLY how difficult it was for this show’s engineer to resist the temptation to crash the transmitter, or quietly cross-fade to a cart full of PSAs.
If Jennifer succeeds in browbeating Ernesto into giving the PUMAs a regular time-slot, I humbly suggest that the show be called “Carrier Frequency.”
OneWithLandru
17 November 2008 at 1:33 pm
Oh, my, the boyz are in a tizzy!
prowlerzee
17 November 2008 at 2:20 pm
Landru:
Outstanding! Hahahaha! You my friend deserve a cookie and a pat on the back for your witty reparte!
KB
17 November 2008 at 2:26 pm
Wow. I’m just catching up on this whole megillah, by way of Rumproast.com.
Holey moley! Jenniforhillary’s broadcast debut was a cross between the Hindenburg Disaster and the last fight I ever watched between Jerry Cooney and any black boxer.
Hopefully, this will teach radio station managers worldwide to restrict their fundraising incentives to imprinted tote bags and DVD collections of be-bop music revivals. FIRST RULE OF MEDIA PRODUCTION: DO NOT GIVE FREE AIRTIME TO HYSTERICAL, BLATHERING BRAIN CASES UNLESS YOU HAVE A KILL-SWITCH OR A DEATH-WISH.
My advice to Jennifer and Murphy: Step away from the microphone and put your serotonin receptors where we can block the re-uptake.
God bless KPFT, and God bless it’s listeners who refused to put up with these two Laurel & Hardy political activist wannabees. It’s one thing to be uninformed, but when you are just relentlessly, intentionally stupid, the public has a right to crawl up your crevice and give you the on-air wedgie you so justly deserve.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 2:30 pm
Oh, and watch out for commenters like prowlerzee.
PUMAs are absolutely convinced that a) everyone who thinks they’re hilarious born-victims is a “boy” and 2) that having their knickers pulled down in a public forum is a badge of honor and a sign that they are feared.
Obviously, the PUMA catchphrase is “Whatever doesn’t kill me only makes me dumber.”
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 2:47 pm
I have noticed that not one of the so smart and so witty letter writers have discussed either the caucus fraud or Rangle’s bill.
Truth is not so easy to dismiss. And personal attacks do not work on bills.
I challenge ANY KPFT listener to a debate on caucus fraud or Rangle’s bill.
I could aim lower, or higher, in my letters, but that is not the point. The point is that if Democrats, or non-Republicans, or Liberals, or non-Conservatives are going to take the high road and profess to speak for the people than they must be able to walk the talk. This year the Democratic Party, lead by Sen. Obama, cheated, lied, and stepped on women, the Constitution of the United States of America, and truth to cheat their way into the White House. Nothing good comes from lying and cheating, especially when the will of the people is disrespected. If not for the caucus fraud, Hillary would have been the Democratic contender for the POTUS. And she would have won. If this point scares you and you are unable to discuss it without personal attacks, perhaps you are not the liberal or the Democrat you thought you were.
Jennifer X
jennfer
17 November 2008 at 3:21 pm
Caucus mechanisms should be reviewed and reformed, although ferocious, badly-researched rants directed at the Party that runs them is probably not the most practical way to go. And what happened to Hillary’s caucus-fraud lawsuit…or did she drop that now that she’s abandoned the PUMAs and everything they stand for?
As for Rangel’s National Service bill, I notice it hasn’t been passed yet. Also, it’s not that much different from similar programs in Switzerland, Israel and other democracies which have found that 50 hours a year of cooperative citizenship is kind of a cool way to build social “ownership” while doing good works, and not a particularly onerous hardship. Did you know that many private schools already have a Public Service requirement? Of course you didn’t. But that’s OK. You’re an idiot.
…Unless, of course, you’re conflating Rangel’s bill with the utterly bogus “Civilian National Security Force” conspiracy crap the PUMAs can’t seem to get straight. THAT initiative was originally proposed by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and is aimed at building a more muscular State Department with “peace-building” resources on a par with the DOD’s war-fighting powers. An army of agricultural specialists, economic advisors, translators and cultural liasons is NOT the same as a “domestic corps of Brownshirts,” no matter how you numbnuts twist it. Read about it here, if you dare:
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3617492&c=FEA&s=CVS
Seriously, even though you are now “jennifer X,” which I guess is supposed to make you appear as though you represent a formidable legion of nameless “X” women, your facts are bad, your methods are shabby, your logical process requires at least a routine defragging, and lecturing me on the Constitution or the fairness of the primary process is going to get you exactly nowhere.
PS: Hillary gamed the system as cynically as any other candidate. Google is your friend. Try it. You may find that being a PUMA is kind of, well, silly.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 4:04 pm
Any MANDATORY Government mandatory Civilian service is NOT like any voluntary PRIVATE program.
Apples and oranges.
Any decent debate coach would score your side 0, my side 1.
next.
jennfer
17 November 2008 at 4:21 pm
Did anyone hear the “Inner Side” broadcast on KPFT that absolutely ripped Crazy Jenny’s show the next day?
They did a 5-minute “Crackpot Remix” of Jenny and that other girl and a bunch of callers that is pure ROTFL material.
DangerGirl
17 November 2008 at 4:33 pm
So, Jennifer X, i suppose that means you hate Israel, and Democracy.
And you don’t want to know my National Forensic League standing. You’re at least a few Rubies short.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 4:37 pm
Wow . With all of the controversy Jennifer’s show has generated , I would think that a permanent segment would send ratings through the roof !
The impression I got from listening to the show was that Jenni and Murphy were having to deal with several very passionate , yet uninformed callers , and they did it brilliantly considering the fact that they were literally being screamed at .
I listen to other call in shows and I know that callers who are disrespectful to the hosts are ALWAYS cut off by the person manning the phones , and yet , on this occassion , one caller in particular , was going on and on , YELLING misinformation , and I was ver impressed with how calm the hosts were in trying to get a word in edgewise .
Both Jennifer and Murphy are very well versed on not only politics in general , but on what transpired during the Primaries which greatly effected the outcome of the election.
Any public radio station should be honored to have those 2 brilliant and accomplished women on a show . This blowback by uninformed Obama supporters is nothing more than a concerted effort to prevent the truth from being told – which , by the way , should be a PRIORITY for a station like KPFT .
I wish they had MORE shows with Jennifer and Murphy , perhaps with a new topic each week !
KPFT should do what the MSM has refused to do all along – inform the public !
I will listen to Jenni and Murphy anytime on any station .
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 4:50 pm
“So, Jennifer X, i suppose that means you hate Israel, and Democracy.”
The media still refuses to connect the dots with the Obama inner circle – . What do all of these people (past relationships , Ayers , Wright , Kahlidi etc. And all of his staffers and campaign advisors including , Powers , Brezinski , Gen, McPeak ,Bonior , etc.etc ) have in common ? They all want Israel taken off the map . Powers even went so far as to call for an invasion of Israel .
Ayers dedicated his book ,Prairie Fire to Sirhan Sirhan who killed Kennedy . Why did he kill Kennedy ? According to his father , it was because Kennedy supported Israel and Sirhan had been harmed by ‘the Jews” . WAKE UP , FOLKS …
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 4:53 pm
I have listened to KPFT for years and when whatever that was came on I thought I had lost my mind!
Whoever those two women were, they were the most frightened, shameless, bullying cowards I have ever heard on the radio. They yelled over all their callers and cut off anyone who didn’t agree with them.
I couldn’t tell if they were KKK’ers or flying saucer abductees or what. They just sounded like a couple of lunatics, and they didn’t have a brain between them. Does ANYONE know what their point was?
Promise me you’ll never have them on again, even in fun. If you need therapy, get a doctor — not a radio show.
QuiltingBea
17 November 2008 at 5:01 pm
I’m not really surprised that there is alot of buzz concerning PUMA. This is the most knowledgable group concerning Caucus fraud and the purposefull alienation of the Delegates to vote for That One instead of Hillary! Hillary won the State of Texas, but she lost the delegates to That One. How does that work?
Texas should do away with the fraudulent and abusive Caucus when voting in the primaries. There’s only a handful of states left that use this archaic system.
And why are women so strongly against other women? PUMA (Party Unity Means Action) is trying to help qualified women gain positions in business and else where when they are eligible. What is so wrong with that?
I’m a mother and a grandmother and I have been discriminated in employement a number of times. I have a college degree with honors, but I’m still a woman. I have a successful marriage and terrific husband. Just because I don’t think “mainstream” doesn’t mean I’m not intelligent.
Give women a break for a change!!
Ernesto, there was nothing wrong with this discussion. Jennifer and Murphy listened to what the callers had to say, but when they tried to defend their positions, they were shouted down – especially by the men. You have the show in your archives, why not listen to it again? I wanted to thank you for giving PUMA the opportunity to have their voices heard, but they were shot down before anyone knew what was happening!
There are two sides to every story!! Thank you!
AmericanWoman
17 November 2008 at 5:04 pm
Whoever ever tried to ventured into a PUMA blogosphere, couldn’t expected anything else but a paranoid, hysteric yelling on the air. That cyber place is an echo chamber, overloaded with a blind, irrational hate against Obama, where any opinion which isn’t totally unanimous with the majority is immediately cut off.
Those ladies are unable of a civil conversation or rational argumentation.
Citizen Cane
17 November 2008 at 5:04 pm
It amazes me how uncomfortable some people are when they are confronted with the TRUTH .
I guess , if I had voted for a candidate that I knew absolutely NOTHING about , I would probably be defiant to hear the facts after the election as well .
I mean if I had pulled the lever for a man who paid to perpetuate caucus fraud , who refused to release his college records , his passport files , his actual addresses of record , his Senate schedule , his communications with his cousin , Ralia Odinga , while he was in the Senate , who has 17 lawsuits pending against him just to get him to show his birth certificate – someone who had only 143 days experience in the Senate before he decide he was qualified to run the country – even though his own district on the south side of Chicago had suffered under his leadership , then , yea , I guess I would be clinging to the old saying , “Ignorance is Bliss.”
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 5:09 pm
Still waiting. Does anyone want to discuss caucus fraud, delegate selling and buying, denver fraud, misogyny, or racism?
What about Rangel’s Bill, Emmauel’s statement regarding MANDATORY Civilian service, FISA?
For a pro-Democracy radio station, it is becoming more apparent by the minute that making fun of people simply because you do not agree with and/or have not taken the time to properly research their position is the new Post-Democracy way. If this is what we have to look forward to, we are all in a trouble.
jennfer
17 November 2008 at 5:13 pm
TexasTigress — I know you live in a paranoid universe, and I recognize that you are one of the millions of Google-less pinheads who believe that Ahmadinejad said he wanted to “wipe Israel off the map.”
Be that as it may, you could perform the same “connect the dots” exercise with Bush, Grover Norquist, Achmed Chalabi and the Saudi Royal Family, and arrive at the identical conclusion that Bush wants to destroy Israel. And you would, because you’re an idiot.
People who don’t know the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the complexity of Middle Eastern politics, or the number of very smart people who believe we should rethink our relationship with an artificial nation that spies on us and consistently thwarts our own national interests should probably think first, post later.
Not to mention the fact that your comment was a complete non sequitur.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 5:14 pm
I think the Ladies did a good job, dicussing it with you here, is senseless and a waste of energy.
They held their own, with respect, not to say the least any of you here, know what that means.
You’ll find out someday, when you all come to earth.
We were all young like you obots too, just not so rude and hateful.
michelina
17 November 2008 at 5:23 pm
strange – ” non sequitur ” that’s what i’m here for
I’m not paranoind – I am concerned that the President elect’s associations have never been vetted by the media or the public . Regardless of one’s positions on foreign policy , they (they public) should be given all of the information and be allowed to decide for themselves if the candidates share their positions and values .
It was good talking to you , now I must return to my foil room and wait for further instructions from the mother ship .
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 5:27 pm
WTF was that? I think PUMA knows how to get a message out.
simofish
17 November 2008 at 5:39 pm
What is the matter with you people? Is this a radio show that solicites comments or an Obama controlled (bought and paid for) station? We need a free media. The PUMAS and other very credibile sources have made a documentary submitted to the DNC on Obama’s caucus fraud. This is not some made up story for your enjoyment. Open your eyes, and see the koolaid turn to rot…
Mary
17 November 2008 at 5:40 pm
TexasTigress — Barack Obama’s personal and political relationships were aired-out in the media almost as exhaustively as Whitewater and Vince Foster.
The fact that Obama’s voters didn’t care comes, I’m sure, as a terrible shock to you. Faced with the McCain/Palin option, 52% of Americans made the smart move.
I’m white, 53, and turn a good buck engineering nuclear reactors, and I have to be honest: 1) I find the Rev. Wright entertaining, 2) when I was growing up the Weathermen were heroes, 3) if you think Obama is “dirty,” you really don’t know the Clintons; and 4) if you think PUMAs are better-informed than the average Joe-on-the-Street, you haven’t read your own blogs. Christ, you don’t even know what Darragh and Bill did with the money, or what’s up with PUMApac’s FEC filings.
Nice talking to you, too. Wake up early, so you can get in on tomorrow’s PROWL. Liz Spikol says “Hi!”
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 5:41 pm
Thanks for explaining that Ernesto. My husband and I were wondering “WTF was that?”
Alex Jones betta look out! These crazies can out-crazy him any day.
W. McClure
17 November 2008 at 5:41 pm
[...] Oh, and the fallout for the host station after the PUMAs took control? Have a read yourself: per their official blog, “WTF was that?” [...]
Epic Radio Fail
17 November 2008 at 5:41 pm
Mary — And just where IS that documentary?
Last I heard, it was a bungled amateur 10-minute preview to a bunch of bored stringers in Denver, and was supposed to be released in final form on Nov. 5.
Anyone? Bueler? Bueler?
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 5:44 pm
Just that there are some still asking the question “Are they serious” shows how little the DNC currently listens to what has been the broad base of the Democratic party. The wide sweeping with the accusations of racist, directed at anyone who was troubled by this last year’s actions by the DNC just won’t hold water in the long run. This effort to stop open and free thought and analysis smacks of the Bush years – something almost every voter is enormously tired of. There were real and important issues that came up this year, important enough to drive life-long Democrats (many in a long generational line of Democrats) to vote a Republican ticket. The responses of “ignorant” and “racist” decry any true listening. How are we to rebuild America without, among many other things, a true listening to one another. We hear and experience the joy in our first black president, why is it so hard to conceive of even attempt to listen to us? Isn’t this refusal to hear us similar to the right wing branding of certain views as “evil” and therefore not warranting a stance of blindly turning one’s back?
rockrooky
17 November 2008 at 5:51 pm
Obama is a fraud and a liar. All you Bots that voted for him… well…. perhaps you need something to drink besides cool-aide.
I hated Bush with a passion. I am a life-long Democrat and now a PUMA. The disgust I had for bush is pale compared to the loathing I have for Obama.
Hang on for the ride these 4 years. Time to get the survivalist gear out. Obama will spend the country into oblivian and give our National Security up while he lives out his ego of being the leader of the “World”
And HE IS NOT A CITIZEN! Two cases before the US Supreme Court will HAVE to be decided before his inauguration in January. Yep… He is a fraud!
Chalice
Chalice
17 November 2008 at 5:54 pm
rokrooky:
“Ignorant” I can understand. But who called you “racist”? You won’t find it on this page.
You are projecting your own fears in a way that cheapens all women, and I resent it.
Being hysterical and making accusations like this Jenny person isn’t helping any of us.
CircusGirl
17 November 2008 at 5:55 pm
Oh my, it seems that all of the puma pac bloggers have rushed here to defend the TRUTH! Has Jennifer commanded the “prowl”?
Tx.Tig (aka Texas Tigress, right?) the common problem of all your accusations against Obama is that non of them have ever been proved – oh wait, you made a documentary about his crimes? Well, that’s great.
All of the sources you use for your slanders are either proven hoaxer (like API or Berg), loonies or utter fabrications. Elections are over, that doesn’t make any sense anymore.
Stop feeding yourself with hate, it’s bad for your karma.
Citizen Cane
17 November 2008 at 5:58 pm
I know JenniforHillary–she and I and many other now-former Democrats blogged at the DNC PartyBuilder site until many were unfairly banned or just left out of sheer disgust. We have serious problems with how the DNC was allowed to subvert the democratic process in which Hillary Clinton was defrauded out of the Democratic nomination for POTUS. If you all think we are going to STFU, you all have another thing coming. I and every other PUMA have not only the privilege but the OBLIGATION to speak up when we see fraud, subversion, cheating, and bigotry. Call us whatever you want, but we know the truth. You will all find out for the next 4 years what we tried to warn you about–the “I told you so’s” will be cold comfort to us by then.
Irlandese
17 November 2008 at 5:59 pm
High 5 PUMA’s!!!!
Oh… The Racist line about PUMA’s is BS! Racism is the 96% Blacks that BLINDLY voted their color when they voted for the Liar Obama.
I have a black child that I adopted so dont try the racism line on me!
This is about Country First. Obama is a liar and a fraud…. How far liberal left do you want this country to go?
I am not going to pay for Detroit to get bailed out for their mismanagement. I DONT want to pay for Union debts for the car business. Airlines went bankrupt and we still fly!!!
How about I get a million too?
Obama is a liar. Hide your money there are No tax breaks coming. He only votes for increases.
Dang kool-aid drinkers, you have no clue how thirsty you will be when we cant borrow anymore from China and the US Govt cant pay your welfare any more!
Angelica
17 November 2008 at 6:03 pm
And oh, BO is not even qualified to be POTUS for so many legal reasons pertaining to his citizenship status as per the Constitution. And mind you Constitution is KING.
mylifeontheglist
17 November 2008 at 6:05 pm
Oh, just as I thought:
http://pumapac.org/2008/11/17/forced-hysterectomies-for-bitches-and-ditzes/#comment-241227
Citizen Cane
17 November 2008 at 6:10 pm
Charlie RanG-E-L, Jennifer X, was a HUGE Hillary supporter all through the primaries, until she embarrassed herself with the non-concession concession bunker speech, which we all remember, and Charlie had to break it to her that in fact, she had lost, something her staff was afraid to tell her.
At last, Hillary was able to wake up and smell the coffee, which meant moving on with reality. Her willingness to campaign with Obama, McCain’s willingness to work with Obama, should tell you something about overblown campaign rhetoric. All these people, and the nation at large, are moving on. Your group is ever more marginalized, not least because you deal with dissent by deleting it on your blogs and cutting off discussion in person.
Mrs.Polly
17 November 2008 at 6:11 pm
Obama is an illegitimate candidate. He was not elected. He was selected by the DNC. He was bought and paid for by Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the pathetic cast of characters. Obama is unqualified to be president. He is nothing more the an empty suit lying hypocrite. He is a repulsive Chicago politician who will do and say anything to win an election. How about FISA? Are you happy about that? What about campaign finance reform? Nice move Obama? Gun control, abortion name and issue and he will flip his stance in order to win. He is pathetic. He has no morals or integrity. You Obots have been duped. You have been bamboozled. I hope you have all signed up to join his civilian security force. What a bunch of morons.
Puma-SF
17 November 2008 at 6:11 pm
I am a person who has been an active member of the Democratic Party for the last 35 years. During that time I have put in countless hours and expended tons of energy working for candidates and causes.
This year, I dropped my party affiliation. I dropped it because of the shocking and shoddy treatment of Hillary Clinton, the blatent cheating that took place in the primaries, and the way the news media acted toward all women. I discovered that the super delegates had been bought. I discovered that the party thought they owned me and my vote. When the election rolled around, I voted for McCain, the first time I have ever voted republican for president.
I am angrier than I have ever been in my life. My anger is directed at the inability of the party to come into the light of day and accept women as the equal citizens that we are. I am angry that the blatent cheating in the primaries was largely ignored by the press and the party leaders. I am angry that we have a president elect that was not fully vetted. I am seething that the people I had trusted to be fair and honest (party leaders) turned out to be liars, cheats, and woman haters. I am angry that I stayed so long in a farce of a political party.
The republicans are no better.
So now I am unaffiliated, but free. I no longer see the party through rose colored glasses. And I will no longer spend my time working for the party. They can look elsewhere.
And yes, I joined PUMA. We are a group who is for straightening out the mess we found. We are sick of the people who call us racists. We are sick of the open hatred of anyone who would stand against the mess the party created. We are seeting that the Obama supporters have physically assaulted some of us, verbally assaulted all of us, with never a word being said in the press or by the party leadership.
So, if you folks are surprised because we are angry, then you have been ill informed about what went on in the election. As far as we are concerned, Obama did not measure up, still does not measure up, and likely will never measure up to Hillary Clinton or Sarah Palin in ability to govern. Wasn’t picking the person best equiped to govern what the election was about?
Heneri
17 November 2008 at 6:13 pm
Hi Jennifer,
Thanks for your note. Clarifications are in order.
If the reference post is wrong (and there is no relationship between the groups with the PUMA acronym), I can do some more research on it. If memory serves, our discussion on this matter was extremely brief, rather than detailed, and it was not until I was writing to provide context to listeners that I found the cited link.
False and misleading statements and discourtesy have been part of free debate for time immemorial — the Socratic Method itself is the product of Socrates’ effort to stimulate more intelligent debate, after all. However, no one argues for an end to free debate, but rather for a change in approach. That is one reason the culture of community radio — as one in which a full exchange of ideas is at least attempted — is appreciated.
The people behind the microphone have a unique place in the public trust. We shape civility in a debate; undergird the necessity of fairness, even for those we think misguided or ill-intended; and ensure our shared values of respect and dignity don’t get trampled by the pursuit of truth. For me, this is why so few of the rationalizations from other posters pass muster. The fact there have largely been justifications for the on-air actions, rather than offering even a glimmer of contrition or a holistic view of what happened, is telling.
My task, as a program director with many people who want to share various truths, is helping scaffold the quest for truth in a manner consistent with Pacifica’s mission of understanding and dialogue. For the record, I do not think we do that perfectly, or did so in this case. Hosts make mistakes. Coverage, by virtue of community radio being thinly staffed and largely volunteer run, misses the boat sometimes. I bear some responsibility for that, because programming ultimately falls back to a PD. Yet listeners are patient because they know, even when the discussion is disagreeable as it often is on KPFT, the core concept of community remains intact.
I do not, for a moment, discount your frustration and desire for truth. I will not debate your version of the facts, for that is not why I posted. This blog exists to present issues in the product of community radio. In this case, the product was not liked by listeners. Not “obots.” Not “idiots.” Intelligent people, who listen to KPFT, were insulted by being shouted at by a host and guest. Nowhere is that appropriate on community radio. Nowhere.
Frustration, even if justified, imperils the very notion of community when said emotions take precedence over the basic idea many before us spoke for and fought to defend: that everyone, no matter how wrong, how stupid, how cruel, has a right to speak. As such, shouting down a caller, no matter how untrue we may think their ideas (or even if they shout first), during a call-in program is antithetical to why democracy, let alone community radio, exists.
Thank you for your note.
Ernesto Aguilar
17 November 2008 at 6:18 pm
Heneri,
Shoot… This election was about fraud and that is why the liar was elected. It is a karmic cleansing of the party. Democrats caused this latest crisis… and they will cause the Obama Depression too.
hang on to your pennies, the “NEVER VOTE FOR A TAX CUT” Senator Obama may soon have a majority….
I am sooooooooooooooo looking forward to 2010.
Bots…. Stock up on water, you wont be able to afford your kool-aid much longer!
PUMA
Angelica
17 November 2008 at 6:22 pm
Hopefully the PUMA radio program being discussed here gave regular listeners something to think about. The caucus fraud certainly was not confined just to Texas. Does it not seem peculiar that of the 12 states that held caucuses, Obama won 11 of them? That’s not even reasonable. Maine was the big surprise. Senator Clinton was up by double digits in the polls just prior to the caucus, but Obama won by double digits. How can that be explained without at least considering caucus fraud? Think about it. I don’t appreciate a candidate who uses those tactics to win.
Carol
17 November 2008 at 6:26 pm
Ernesto’s unfailing and unrequited civility to Jennifer (X) is a wonder to behold. I love Public Radio.
Yes, Jennifer X put out a call for supporters on the PUMAPAC blog:
jenniforhillary 11.17.08 at 3:26 pm
“PLEASE go to the KPFT website and post your comments….there are HORRIBLE comments there about Murphy and me and PUMA and women and blah blah blah
http://kpft.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/wtf-was-that/
Sometimes I wonder if the world is not so fucked up that nothing I can do will make a bit of difference”
This is just sad. Notice how she slides “women” in there as if any of the callers or commenters attacked women in some way. The only time women were mentioned by nonPUMAs was when women, of whom I am one, said we were embarrassed by that inadvertantly tragicomic hour of accusation, bluster and childishness.
Mrs.Polly
17 November 2008 at 6:31 pm
Ladies, which one from your cult is Ashley Todd?
Citizen Cane
17 November 2008 at 6:35 pm
I am a Puma from Pa., I voted for McCain, that was the first time in 25 years I voted for a different party, I love the people expressing their opinion’s on here, this is America we don’t agree with Obama and how he ran his campaign, if you do that is your opinion, and as far as the Puma’s going away DREAM ON it is not going to happen, I do take offense with one of the blogger’s who said the Democratic Party doesn’t need the Puma type people, I beg to differ, but for many years the women vote is what carried the Democratic Party and they seemed to forget about it after the things that happened to Hillary, you Obama supporters have your Messiah for at least 4 years, we will see what happen’s after that how bad things are really going to get, I have made a promise to myself, I will never vote for Dem’s again they have forgotten what has gotten them this far, they forgot many of the women voter’s, the Puma’s will be watching and growing our organization daily so we will be totally ready in 2010 and 2012, we can wait.I hope you live in your little Obama fantasy world until the next time, maybe your bubble will burst.
Gazzed
17 November 2008 at 6:36 pm
Let’s just nip this thing about PUMAs being racist in the bud once and for all. I am a middle aged, African American female who voted Democrat my whole life. However, during the past two years, I stopped seeing eye to eye with the Democratic Party. The only reason I would have voted Democrat this year would have been if Hillary had won the nomination. Making a long story short, I am now disenfranchised from the Democratic Party. I voted this year Republican and have changed my party affiliation. Yes, this AA sister, is PUMA and proud of it. PUMAs see Obama for whom he is. We know he stole the election. Hell, he stole Hillary’s YES WE CAN too. As much as Obamabots hated Hillary, as soon as BHO started popping the YES WE CAN, Obamabots fell into line singing the same tune.
It is unfortunate that so many are only too happy to sit in the dark drinking that Jim Jones kool-aid.
If anyone made mention of BHO and brown shirts, it’s because has set himself up for it. After all, the man is planning to create a national civilian security force, one that would be beholden to himself.
Obamabots blindly elected an inexperienced BHO. Why else is he appointing former Clinton staffers? He talks of change, but everyone he is surrounding himself with belongs to the Old School Network.
The only experience the man has is a few years of community service and he didn’t do that right. He left the people of Chicago behind in worse shape than before they knew the name Obama.
And Obamabots voted for this? All for what? A check? Sorry, but I’d rather earn mine.
Are you serious?
bydesign001
17 November 2008 at 6:37 pm
Well, I am sorry I missed the show, though I would like to state what happened to ME, in Texas, in my caucus. It goes to the heart of why I don’t like Obama. And, yes, I am an independent voter who has generally voted DEM in the prez elections since 1976.
I do not consider myself an idiot, but I was kept out of MY caucus, too. I stopped by right after casting my vote in the Dem primary and I was told (by some pretty big and persuasive guys) that our caucus was shut down (nobody allowed in) by the fire-dept. I believed these jerks and I am angry that I did. I am not mad at myself. I am mad at Obama.
Now, with all Obama has in his quesionable past, I agree with Murphy that he should NOT be prea-elect, and I am working to keep it from happening.
Anyone can go to Obamacrimes.com and blog there— and take what you find to post elsewhere. It is the democratic thing to do!
Anne Beckett
17 November 2008 at 6:37 pm
I’m a democrat. I’m a PUMA. I voted straight ticket republican. The discussion here is one sided. PUMA’s, Hillary’s supporters, or what ever you wish to call us have experienced far worse from Obama supporters. I judged Obama on his very first oration. It was then I realized that this is not a man who needs to be president. Obama is simply a figure head in name only. One can tell this by the people he is surrounding himself with. He will achieve nothing for us in four years except to make those who put him where he is richer. The wealth is only switching hands between one party to the next. The poor and middle class are not going to gain anything. Let’s see…if Bush’s tax cuts are allowed to expire and he doesn’t raise my taxes, doesn’t that mean I will pay more taxes? Also, Obama did wonders for racial tension…he kept bringing it up all the time as a tactic called race baiting. There is not unity in the democratic party any more. There is no unity in America any more. Obama doesn’t not know the true meaning of patriotism. Our flag is not just a piece of cloth. It is a symbol of all the Americans who fought and died to maintain our freedoms. I’m ranting here so I am just going to end this with that the listeners didn’t like hearing another point of view of an Anti-Obama voter as they experienced the election process. So they did what all the other Obama supporters in the past have done. They flooded KPFT with negative email. On u-tube they would flag videos as inappropriate or they would bombard web sites against Obama with emails until the web sites would crash. This are the typical Obama supporter methods. “Hey Murphy…don’t waste any more of your time here.” All I can say is that when the Kool Aide wears off, it’s not my fault.
Hillicrat
17 November 2008 at 6:41 pm
I have the idea that citizen cane appreciates a team effort. However, It appears he’s less alike to appreciate cogent argument, and would rather swallow his florida lobster a la sofa potato, amidst the cheers of his ever caring mom and cheerleader wife. This one wants spoon feeding and did not come prepared.
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 6:45 pm
StrangeAppar8us,
I am little older than you and the weathermen were never heroes, except to powerless white boys who wished they had the cred of the black panthers. The weathermen were from the privildeged white educated middle class and had no interest in knowing that their actions were actually hurting the working class and grass root movements. So please don’t start romanticizing these lesser humans. The Obamabots are just the same class, not interested in the truth just in their romantic idea of what the world “should look like,” abetting the thuggery that Obama and his henchmen in south Chicago did to steal every election he ever ran in.
Democracy is about open and honest discourse and those of you who can only insult and name call because you can hide behind the anonymity of the Internet are much the same as those weatherman doing their “sabotage” while the Panthers were all over the place in public view and as we know some ended up losing their lives.
Ayers and his ilk were and are delusional. His actions did nothing to change the plight of the working class. As always if we don’t learn from history it just repeats itself.
click212
17 November 2008 at 6:50 pm
Ernesto, thank you so much for your letter.
I apologize that the ongoing PUMA/Anti-PUMA ruckus has spilled over into your comments section. Sadly, the PUMAs do not permit un-PUMA thoughts on their own blogs; consequently, the only places they can be challenged and forced to defeat themselves by their own words is in third-party venues like this one.
For all the grief your freebie grant of airtime has cost you, I believe you performed a valuable public service by giving this organization a radio pulpit and the opportunity to expose itself to a wider audience. In fact, I think the word “expose” is precisely the proper one here — since your audience was able to hear, first-hand, the full extent of cult-like indoctrination and everyone-else-is-crazy absence of self-awareness that distinguishes the PUMA party in its present form.
What was once a political action committee with honest concerns about the mechanics of the Democratic primary process and the sexism of media pundits has become a garbled voice in a very tiny megaphone ranting against Obama, men, Keith Olbermann, the unfairness of life, the duplicity of Hillary Clinton, the changeability of the weather, the unreliability of old cars and whoever the damn fool was who decided that women’s dresses should zip up the back.
In short, the PUMAs have become the proverbial old codger shouting into a bucket.
That your audience found them bizarre is a credit to your listenership. And that you were able to respond to them with such intelligence, fairness and restraint is a credit to you as a person and a professional.
They have had their 60 minutes on the air. We can all move on now.
Fare forward, KPFT.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 6:52 pm
What’s funny is that “Citizen Cane” posted about how Murphy called out to all her fellow PUMA’s on PumaPac.com and that’s why all the support for Murphy and PUMA showed up in these comments. Why is it funny? Because it is something we learned from Obama’s own website. Also, while I didn’t hear the talk show and I don’t approve of shouting down callers, that is another thing that was learned from Obama’s website. Remember when he told his supporters to get into people’s faces and shout them down? “Murphy, again I tell you…this place is just not worth it. Time will dull the shine of the Obama craze and hopefully the USA will survive until someone of quality character and experience comes forth.”
Hillicrat
17 November 2008 at 6:56 pm
Is this America?
What happened to free speech?
What happened to diverse topics?
What happened to hearing the truth, such as Obama being selected.
Obama and his kool-aid drinkers committed fraud in most of the caucuses, and charges have been brought forward and the truth will set you free bros.
Jennifer and Murphy, from pumapac.org (come and visit to find out the truth ladies) probably had the most popular and challenging topic in weeks.
The phones were ringing off the hooks, but apparently mostly Obots (Obama followers) seem to be the ones that were able to get through.
KPFT IS THIS AMERICA?
IS THIS THE COUNTRY OF FREE SPEECH?
I SUGGEST YOU HAVE JENNIFER ON AGAIN TO ADDRESS THIS VOLATILE TOPIC “VOTER FRAUD” WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?
TerryDo
17 November 2008 at 7:00 pm
@ApparBus and everyone:
Thanks for coming by. I don’t mind the discussion at all. No apologies needed. If this helps everyone to have a chat they might not otherwise have or be exposed to, it’s cool with me.
For those who need it and didn’t hear, I expect to post the audio to the full show shortly.
Ernesto Aguilar
17 November 2008 at 7:01 pm
The echo chamber continues to reverberate. Sad:
jenniforhillary 11.17.08 at 4:30 pm
http://kpft.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/wtf-was-that/
please go and post PRO puma comments
I am sad that there are so few
Liz I.
17 November 2008 at 7:05 pm
It is my view that Obama is a bit conservative. His views on the economic recovery, FISA, and free markets are pretty Republican. I don’t find him at all progressive, particularly when it comes to women’s rights and women in general. In fact, he seems Neanderthal when it comes to Hillary, in terms of women’s rights and healthcare.
As an Independent, I am not at all impressed by him. I do not like his continued use of race as an election tool – and his playing of the race card when it is to his advantage. I believe his manipulation of it has set race relations back in this country. I do not feel he has a command of the issues, and that he is not ready for the job. I am hopeful he will put alot of Clinton people around him and will do exactly as they say until his feet are on the ground, and he understands foreign policy to a much greater degree.
It is also my view that Hillary was so much better prepared, and that the MSM and the Democratic party were out to keep her from getting he job, partly because of sexism, and partly because they did not want Bill back in the White House.
sarah
17 November 2008 at 7:06 pm
Look at how George W. Bush got elected. Propeganda and fraud. See how well he worked out. Now, Obama has outdone him and if you believe the results will be any better , I have a bridge for you in Brooklyn with a great view that I’ll let you have cheap.
The $800,000 that BO donated to the ACORN affilliate was for the PRIMARY. The DNC primary was a total fraud. Votes were fixed and delegates were bribed and intimidated. Bill Gwatney was murdered and Stephanie Tubbs-Jones died “suddenly”.
The Obama campaign took it to the next level during the Presidential Campaign. Burried in the voluminous amount of information on his campaign contributions are numerous abuses of funding rules and laws. BUT THERE ARE NO PLANS TO AUDIT HIM!
Our states do minimal audits and ACORN went wild. There is massive potential for fraud in the system if you have money to spend. And there was a record amount.
I find it hard to believe myself as the election margin seems clear, but the truth is that we really cannot know because there is so much fraud going on.
The Obama campaign discloses nothing they do not have to about Obama himself as well as the donors. We cannot have fair elections without transparency and accountablility.
There is none here.
Lu4PUMA
17 November 2008 at 7:08 pm
Citizen Cane
17 Nov 08 at 5:58 pm
********
Citizen Cane, you are the one with bad karma and it will be visiting you for the next 15 years and it won’t be pretty.
Do you know how to say, it’s all going to be bad!!!
TerryDo
17 November 2008 at 7:09 pm
Ernesto Aguilar 17 Nov 08 at 7:01 pm
@ApparBus and everyone:
Thanks for coming by. I don’t mind the discussion at all. No apologies needed. If this helps everyone to have a chat they might not otherwise have or be exposed to, it’s cool with me.
For those who need it and didn’t hear, I expect to post the audio to the full show shortly.
******************************
Now Ernesto that is an excellent idea. And I think you will get even more listeneres, when you invite Jennifer back to defend her perspective. Thank You!
TerryDo
17 November 2008 at 7:12 pm
“The Obamabots are just the same class…”
Bring it on, click212. If this is a Black-Panthers-had-a-bigger-dick-than-the-Weatherman argument, I’ll be happy to concede. Your team was on the front lines, fully visible, and working to bring America down in plain sight. The SDS was a moneyed yacht-club of revolutionaries in comparison.
I’m just a little confused about your message: Are you saying that Barack Obama is just a wannabee punk because he isn’t quoting Angela Davis in a black beret and wrapround sunglasses, or are you one of those folks who think General Cinque got a bad rap because he raped Patty Hearst in a closet?
Clarity helps. And please don’t include “class” or “ilk” in your reply. That sort of wording tends to make posters sound like they don’t know precisely what they’re pissed about.
Oh, and I’m sorry Abbie Hoffmann got all the good lines because Bobbie Seale had his mouth duct-taped shut. I had no control over that.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 7:14 pm
I listened to the program. It was a blatant attack by the male callers and 1 female to take over the entire program. The first caller was almost laughing and refused to make his point and move on. The next caller picked up where he left off and so on. It was apparently a planned attempt to discredit Jennifer and Murphy and probably by some of the same people who were in on the Caucus fraud. Maybe he(first caller) was the “tall white intimidating male” at Jennie’s caucus. Nothing valid was being spoken by him. He was an intimidator of the first class.
Mary
17 November 2008 at 7:21 pm
Live the causus sytem i TX befroe you ride your obotian horse.
Edie Waksh
17 November 2008 at 7:22 pm
I applaud Jennifer and Murphy for having the fortitude to stand up to the biased establishment and media and letting the people hear the truth. Our primary and election systems are full of fraud. One just has to learn to manipulate the system and they are elected. It is time for the American people to know the truth. If you think that bullying and coning are ways to win an election than think again. PumaPAC is for fairness and honest elections and we are fighting for those very reasons. We want legitimate people elected, not con artists! Check out http://www.lynettelong.com if you want the facts on the caucus fraud.
Barb Puma
17 November 2008 at 7:27 pm
StrangeAppar8us,
Speak for yourself, you are not the spokesperson for the rest of the people writing here. Ingratiating yourself by ass kissing Ernesto is the act of a craven scoundrel. There are people who might agree with you but that doesn’t diminish the argument of those who present an opposite view. Nor do we need you to call the agenda “We can all move on now.Fare forward, KPFT.” Talk about delusional!!
click212
17 November 2008 at 7:27 pm
Ernesto, I surrender.
PLEASE invite Jennifer back on KPFT to “explain” her “perspectives” on “reality.”
Seriously, she could be to your station what William Hung was to “American Idol.”
If you have the fearless strength-of-spirit to let Jennifer make herself an Icon of Idiocy to half of Texas, your biggest worries will be a) where to put all the advertising money and b) whether to syndicate her to satellite or HD.
Jennifer is your “Singing Frog,” man. Go for it!
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 7:33 pm
I didn’t hear the broadcast in question, but, beinga member, have spent a good bit of time on the PUMA and other web sites of that nature, normally as a “lurker,” rather than an active participant. But judging from the behavior of Obama supporters who happen to post on those sites, as well as my judgement that neither of these intelligen and reasonable women are capable of such behavior, I’m not going to swallow the nonsense about Jennifer and Murphy being rude and shouting at those who called in. As to the “second most popular question” received by the KPFT host (Are these people serious?), that we are. I am 70 years of age and a life-long Democrat who is now registered as an independent due to the betrayel on the part of the formerly Democratic, but now small-d democrat party. In my opinion, the party needs to be taught a lesson, which must involve the defeat of every democrat who supported the party’s undemocratic actions and is up for re-election in 2010 and 2012, which means, naturally, a Republican in the White House four years hence; only then can real Democrats regain control of their party and reinstate the core values which were once its mainstay.
Jerome
17 November 2008 at 7:33 pm
Jerome — Download the archived broadcast. I guarantee you’ll feel like a total dick afterward.
PS: Gor bless you for making it to 70.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 7:40 pm
click212 — Forgive me for thanking our host, who probably wasn’t expecting a political range-war in his living room.
Now, what is your other major malfunction? And who the hell do YOU speak for?
Buzz off.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 7:46 pm
The Obama apparatus follows the PUMA very closely, and is waging a well-funded campaign to distort and discredit the movement. This show was targeted specifically it appears, judging from the Astro-Turfed negative “response” from the “public”…
It's True
17 November 2008 at 8:01 pm
Just two words: Ellen Jamesians
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 8:07 pm
well funded? hahaha wrong! Money is not needed to watch these wackjobs destroy themselves. Hey Will and Darughhhhh, show us the money! I love hearing all the deadlines to doom, wait till North Carolina, wait till the convention, wait till the debates, wait till the election, wait till the delegates vote, wait till the lawsuit, wait till 2012! hahahaha give it up pumas, your delusional theories are played out, you’ve lived your 15 minutes, it’s over! There is no COLB case, there is no MO tapes, you lost! you lost! you lost!
Oh yeah, Hillary is going to accept the Secretary of State position!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/17/hillary-clinton-secretary-of-state
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 8:09 pm
Just two words: Heads exploding.
That Obama apparatus, I tell ya. Pheew. Most powerful thing to come along since Hitler built that 146-foot tall death robot.
Kevin K.
17 November 2008 at 8:13 pm
StrangeAppar8us – thanks for wishing God’s blessing for me. It’s entirely possible that I may feel like a total dick–in truth, I have often not only felt like one, but have often been one–but that won’t change my opinions as to the democrat party one bit, or about what must happen to bring it back, or, for that matter, about my affiliation and support for PUMA, as well as my resoect ad admiration of Jennifer and Murphy.
Jerome
17 November 2008 at 8:17 pm
First word: Alinsky
Second word: Axelrove
It's True
17 November 2008 at 8:19 pm
Another word: disinformation
It's True
17 November 2008 at 8:20 pm
I dd not hear th show….but I am not shocked at the behavior towards the PUMA reps …The media by.their silence gave us th IRAQ war….who is to say that what happened at the cacuses was
surpessed…we will neer know…but to .rant that
it was not possible….denotes closed minds….the
media has done a great job…hat I found truly
HYPOCRITICAL is the apology from the radio reps
please don’t insult our inelligence…SMA!!
PUMAS don’t waste your time… you have better thingsto do…a philly puma
to do
clem greco
17 November 2008 at 8:25 pm
Now how many PUMA is that now that have said “I didn’t hear the shoe, but….Jenni and Murphy are the greatest, bestest, coolest, NOW-whacking, penis-shredding conspiracy theorists, EVAH!”
Thanks Ernesto for the space to have fun and say “hi” to Scooter from the Rumproasters for me.
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 8:29 pm
Christ Almighty! You mean I could get PAID to debunk the PUMAtrons?
Crap. I’ve been doing this for six months just because it gives me a boner to make stupid people LOOK stupid.
As always, PUMAs can only explain the Real World’s total dismissal of the Darragh Murphy/Riverdaughter Dumboganda Machine by postulating a worldwide, Soros-funded conspiracy of Zombie-Typing-Clones who just happen to be everywhere they are, first…and funnier.
It never occurs to these effing dimwits that there might be a handful of really vindictive, witty patriots who ALSO live on divorce settlements and SS Disability Paymnents (or, as it turns out, a decent freelance income) who have as much time as Darragh Murphy to sit around, diddle our clits and OPPOSE the constant stream of malicious, hare-brained misinformation that issues forth from the PUMAzone.
Then again, I understand why PUMAs need to believe in a “Grand Conspiracy of Power” arrayed to defeat them, since they would choke on the knowledge that they are forever being outwitted and out-posted by a handful of part-time jagoffs who just happen to think they’re wicked silly.
George Soros has never heard of PUMA. Nor would he care if he did. Nor, in fact, would anyone.
The greatest misconception of the PUMAs is that, somehow, they threaten someone.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 8:35 pm
I downloaded the broadcast. It’ wasn’t pleasant.
I can’t speak to the rules for KPFT, but someone with the strength to be an anarchist, in this day and age, must recognize the knowledge gap occurring here. It seems to me that there is an opportunity. Even the basement dwelling pajamaed PUMA sniper, StrangeAppar8us appears to agree.
While I’’ll be the the first to agree rude behavior is disagreeable, my ears picked up more volume from the two male callers. I didn’t hear anyone disconnected without being addressed first. Each time another caller was waiting. PUMAs will speak and not be shouted down.
Questions from callers indicated a general lack of information, or were struggling with misinformation. In the case of the last woman, I believe, she was lucky, there were some districts in Texas without trouble.
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 8:35 pm
I am a proud P.U.M.A. too. I still feel Democrat, at least the Democrat in my heart but I am not in “Obama’s party now.” I don’t feel that Obama is even a liberal democrat but a Socialist. It looks like our country is going that way. McCain didn’t make up that term out of the blue, many have thought it for a long time. I’m pretty proud to have supported Hillary Clinton and John McCain/ Sarah Palin. Nice feeling.
lellingw
17 November 2008 at 8:39 pm
Yeah pumas, you have better things to do like demand to know where your money went? Hey KPFT listeners, you want to know the truth about puma, go here;
http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/11/epic-radio-fail.html?cid=139505544#comments
or here;
http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/five_minutes_of_hate_from_the_daughters_of_the_democratic_confederacy/
These two sites will get you all up to speed on the Epic failure that is PUMA…roar!
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 8:39 pm
Yeah pumas, you have better things to do like demand to know where your money went? Hey KPFT listeners, you want to know the truth about puma, go here;
http://www.yestodemocracy.com
or here;
http://www.rumproast.com/
These two sites will get you all up to speed on the Epic failure that is PUMA…roar!
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 8:40 pm
Call, hang up. Call, hang up. Call, hang up, call, hang up, call hang up, call hang up, call hang up call hang up call han call hang call hang call call call call call. oohh, yes, only one person looks stupid.
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 8:41 pm
Yeah pumas, you have better things to do like demand to know where your money went? Hey KPFT listeners, you want to know the truth about puma, go here;
yestodemocracy dot com
or here;
rumproast dot com
These two sites will get you all up to speed on the Epic failure that is PUMA…roar!
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 8:43 pm
I did not hear the broadcast but I have been reading the comments. It is not the PUMA message that is being attacked but the PUMAs themselves. I suppose the reason being that there is no defending the indefensible. Those who voted for Obama did not do so because he had a real program for improving this country. He ran on a platform of change (what did that mean), racism, and divisiveness and those who followed the MSM did not make any attempt to learn the truth and after a time were so caught up in the rhetoric that nothing else mattered. Obama, himself, knew he was not up to the position but his arrogance and ambition projected him forward. Now that the possibility of having to perform is upon him, he is reaching to the Clinton era of experience to carry him through. Those who voted for change are becoming leary of his intent and are lashing out at individuals, not positions, to vent their disappointment at being deceived. The wary MSM, in order to defend their passionate projection of this person, continues to follow his every move to keep him in the limelight now knowing that their propulsion of him could be wrong. So in their own defense, the Obama voters must continue to spew the hatred for the non-supporters of Obama to justify their error. No argument can ever be won by attacking the person and not the issue.
lee,sarasota
17 November 2008 at 8:48 pm
StrangeAppar8us: You are a typical Obamabot. Foul language, vulgarity, rude disparaging comments because someone is expressing a diverging view of events or ideology. I believe this is an example of COMPLETE HYPOCRISY. I belonged to the Democratic Party when we were not only allowed, but encouraged to speak up when we were confronted with dishonesty. You obviously grew up in later years. Your lack of common courtesy and civility is the earmark of the MTV/Survivor reality TeeVee generation. Good luck. The only commenter here using ANY vulgarity would be you. It won’t work. Now go sit in your time-out chair and don’t come back until you can keep a civil tongue in your mouth.
Irlandese
17 November 2008 at 8:48 pm
roofingbird — Thanks for the compliment. I live in a two-story, paid-off cliffside home on an overlook 400 feet above the Pittsburgh skyline. I am a consultant for Westinghouse Nuclear, Mitsubishi, US Steel and Wendy’s.
Feel free to piss up a rope. I’ll wait.
The callers to this show exhibited a real-world understanding of facts-on-the-ground, and refused to back down to Jennifer and Darragh’s insistent cautions that whatever they believed, it had to be wrong.
Jennifer dumped to a new caller every time she was threatened with on-air annihilation by the phone-in she was talking to. And, to my ears, the most insistent, courageous caller was the female precinct monitor who refused to chow-down Jennifer’s BS about rampant voter fraud.
Oh, never mind. I guess that call was from one of the “Happy Voting Districts” that didn’t experience the rampant black-man bullying that we just KNOW happened in every other polling place that registered a majority Obama vote. Because, like, Hillary is a goddess.
So who do we believe? “Shoot his cock off” Jennifer or someone who was actually hands-on involved in the caucus process.
Please.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 8:52 pm
”
click212 — Forgive me for thanking our host, who probably wasn’t expecting a political range-war in his living room.
Now, what is your other major malfunction? And who the hell do YOU speak for?
Buzz off.”
Excuse me while I fail to see the civility in this statement.
Hillicrat
17 November 2008 at 8:56 pm
I do not hear one intelligent thing coming from you StrangeAppar8tus. That is the problem, the PUMAs are trying to move the conversation and you are just name calling. You won’t learn anything this way. Ernesto-I am disappointed in your attitude, it seems like there was a set up here. Journalism is dead.
Jean
17 November 2008 at 8:57 pm
16% of mccain voters would have gone for hillary..that’s about 8 million voters.
caucus fraud and redistribution of districts are important points that democrats would be well advised to reconsider.
Jillie
17 November 2008 at 8:58 pm
Irlandese, When you have nothing to say you resort to calling people obamabots or kool aid drinkers, you should really lay off the vodka sweetie and wake up from your delusional Obama COLB dreams. We love the fact that you are spouting off from that thing you call a mouth and would never dream of telling you to STFU, you are way too entertaining for a whole lot of us..haha Just for the hell of it, how many cats do you own? Yeah, thought so!
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 8:59 pm
“So who do we believe? “Shoot his cock off” Jennifer or someone who was actually hands-on involved in the caucus process.
Please.” I would say both. Jennifer got her information from people who attended and some who were involved. Now, I don’t know where “Shoot his cock off” title came from, but descriptors such as this should be left out of intelligent conversations.
Hillicrat
17 November 2008 at 9:00 pm
For all of you who are now convinced that this country is worse off after this election; I think I know how to start to fix this mess.
I will note here that the two party system is full of fraud, croneyism, graft and political hackery. The only way to get rid of the mess is to change the system. But how? Don’t the two parties provide us with the only two alternatives? NO! Absolutely NOT!
The solution lies with the legislature. Within the two houses of congress there are a total of 536 members, with 436 of them in the House. That is where we start.
We need an unaffiliated person to be elected to congress from each state. It does not matter which party’s incumbent is replaced, just pick a seat in your state and support someone qualified to be a congressman and get them elected outside the party structure.
If we could be so blessed to have 1 unaffiliated congressional representatives from each state, we could change the nation for a long time. A mere 50 members that had no party obligations, members who could vote the will of their district and their conscience, could return the nation to the people and begin to extricate us from the burden of the locked in place, marching to the order of the party leadership, two party system.
Think about it: We need this kind of change, not the pie in the sky, never, ever, define the details change that Obama talked and talked and talked about. The real change that will be necessary to fix this nation lies in the people, not in the parties. They got us here with their internal warfare, lobby obligations, deception and fraud. We do not need them, they need us. Without us they will die. All it takes is a few people who are willing to stand up and be counted.
Heneri
17 November 2008 at 9:05 pm
Irlandese — I apologize if I ripped up the tent-stakes of your flapping, canvass mind with a bit of blue language. I’m 53 years old, and I’ve learned that being polite to idiots only encourages more idiocy.
If you believe in civil discourse, abandon the PUMAs now. Their posters have referred to Barack Obama as “Sambo” and wistfully hoped for the “death of millions” as a salutary lesson for the vermin who voted for him.
Oh, and if you were hoping to shame me, I cordially invite you to bite my crank.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 9:07 pm
Irlandese and the rest don’t fare well in open forums without Murphy around to delete offending comments.
And Jean, the only place PUMA moves the conversation is toward conspiratorial BS. Rezko, Ayers, Ojinga, COLB, marxism, astrology, hypnosis, Kenya, Indonesia, Canada,, guns, survival gear…Christ its like the John Birchites meet Rambo meets Steinem.
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 9:09 pm
You fight over metaphor? You must prove material value. I don’t care what you believe, you have no meaning. Come back when you care about something other than what’s attached.
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 9:11 pm
“16% of mccain voters would have gone for hillary..that’s about 8 million voters.
caucus fraud and redistribution of districts are important points that democrats would be well advised to reconsider.”
We stand advised. We won.
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 9:12 pm
What’s ironic is that a lot of Clinton staffers and even Senator Clinton herself are rooming in with Obama. What kind of change is that? LOL I guess if we didn’t dislike Obama so much for his arrogant lack of character and experience, then maybe all of the former Hillary supporters would be happy. Be that as it may, PUMA will still be around in 2010, 2012, and so on.
Hillicrat
17 November 2008 at 9:12 pm
Hello fellow Roasters!
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 9:12 pm
PUMAs demanding civility.
Man, the irony is getting thick in here.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 9:13 pm
I’ve never seen a “Sambo” poster on a PUMA blog in my life, and I’ve seen them all. If you are truly 53, then act like it. I not only believe in civil discourse, sir, I WALK THE WALK. Do you agree then with all the Obama supporters who called for Hillary to be gang-raped, given an involuntary hysterectomy, or called every slur ever given for female anatomy? You sir, have obviously NEVER visited ANY of the afore-mentioned PUMA sites, because you’d never find anything remotely like what you’re describing. As for biting anything, I’m done biting my tongue about immature bloggerboiz that are OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER. Grow up and quit shaming your mother with that mouth. She raised you better than that.
Irlandese
17 November 2008 at 9:13 pm
“Be that as it may, PUMA will still be around in 2010, 2012, and so on.”
Yeah all 25 of you!
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 9:15 pm
RUMPA HAKA!
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 9:16 pm
Lee you are so right. There is no response to any of the issues the PUMAs have raised. There are only personal attacks and static because these people have nothing real to say.
Jean
17 November 2008 at 9:20 pm
Oooh your a rebel, I’m so impressed! Not! Take your cane and use it to pull your head out of your ass. If you have never seen a Sambo poster on a puma related site then you need to lay off the crack. The people have spoken and in their words they have said LANDSLIDE! So I suggest you pick up your cat signs and your cute little nicknames and look back on your 15 minutes…Oh yeah, and practice saying President Obama.
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 9:21 pm
The argument for placement of the delegates in Florida is based on the fact the the voting date was set by a Republican Governor and republican legislature. Dem’s didn’t have a choice in the matter, but both democratic candidates’ names were on the ticket and voting did occur.
See the part of the link with Geraldine Ferraro’s comments:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june08/demdiscuss_03-05.html
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 9:22 pm
Issues? Your conspiracy theories are not valid issues!
Next!
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 9:22 pm
Hillary didn’t campaign in either state. Her name was on both ballots and Obama’s was on Florida’s. A few ads were run in Florida by Obama because they were in national TV. However, a court determined this to be okay. Hillary still won that state. In the case of Florida, the vote to have an early ballot was by a Republican controlled State congress so there might have been room for maneuvering. since both people were on the ballot, there really is no reason some proportion of the votes can’t be given.
Here is the latest from Iowa on the Michigan ruling:
http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2151
You can see that crossovers are part of the problem.
If the the primary contest had ended early the votes were wouldn’t have mattered. I do think there is a case for voter disenfranchisement. It’s not their fault this happened.
There is a good chance Obama would not win Michigan, which is why of course he is in no hurry to resolve this. If however, In the caucus states like Texas, Iowa, and Wyoming, the delegates do good for Hillary, this month, and in June, I believe the Michigan and Florida issue will be revisited.
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 9:24 pm
It is interesting how the comments critisizing the Pumas start out thoughtful, but then deteriorate rapidly into rude, foul mouthed name calling. I wonder why it makes these people so angry. I actually worked on a campaign and donated many long hours. There were indeed many irregularities in the caucuses from the Obama campaign. In Houston-the sirens were going off all over the city as police were being called to precincts because of bad behavior from “supporters”. I think many people like to think that their vote counts, and there will be one person=one vote. It can be messy, but it needs to be democratic. I think the pumas bring up some valid points that should be investigated. Why did the Democratic party choose not to investigate the thousands of complaints filed from the Clinton campaign? It could have put to rest some of the accusations of fraud……..or perhaps the Democratic establishment would have had to call attention to the questionable methods from the candidate that was bringing in unprecedented amounts of money from corporate and wall street interests. Why did the 800 grand that Bo paid CSI (a branch of ACORN) first show up as 150 grand for staging and lighting to a non-existent company. What was the true purpose of that 800 grand to CSI-that’s a lot of money, and why was it hidden? And why were so many Clinton supporters on the receiving end of thuggish behavior? I was involved in both the Gore and Kerry campaigns, and I never received this sort of treatment from other Democrats.
Why were so many Clinton delegates told they weren’t on the list at the district conventions? Packets dissappearing, Obama supporters names writtten in the same handwriting,lock outs, and on and on–it was truly unbelievable.
Isn’t it unlikely that BO could receive more votes at a caucus than there were registered democrats in the entire county- where Republicans were not allowed to participate?
I think good Americans ask questions, and don’t believe every opinionated blowhard from MSNBC or CNN.
It has been part of our history as Americans to use our powers of observation (water flows downhill) and question the media, the government, and others.
Why does the issue that the democratic party did not behave with integrity this election cycle make so many people angry and defensive?
greenfun
17 November 2008 at 9:26 pm
Irlandese — I have no idea what you’re talking about.
However, the PUMApac poster “mountainsong” is famous for having referred to Obama as “Sambo.” I outted her on a public forum, which precipitated a four-day debate about whether or not PUMAs “are” or “should be” racist.
“mountainsong” was ejected from the blog, at leallowed to resurface as “mountainsong.” ast briefly. She returned, with Darragh’s tacit approval, under several assumed names before she was allowed to return as “mountainsonh.”
You really need to bone up on your PUMApac lore. I have mountainsong’s email address, if you care to ask her.
Oh, and my mother swore like a sailor.
Next?
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 9:27 pm
PUMA=Fail.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 9:27 pm
BTW, PUMAs – Sarah Palin is NOT Hillary Clinton. Get over it.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 9:29 pm
Whoa. Garbled transmission. Repost graf:
“mountainsong” was ejected from the blog. She returned, with Darragh’s tacit approval, under several assumed names before she was allowed to return as “mountainsong.”
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 9:30 pm
At last count, there were more than 9 million people who are members of the anti-Obama (PUMA) movement. That is a significant number. The reason McCain lost is not because the PUMA movement failed, it was because the conservatives in the republican party stayed home. Check your exit poll numbers if you don’t believe me.
The PUMA movement has not failed. We are now a vital part of the American political culture. For a movement that is only 5 months old, we have already made a mark. Though we are currently in our very early stages of development, we have already redefined the women’s movement to some degree.
For those who don’t understand this: There are PUMA members from all walks of life. Some of us work full time. Some of us own small businesses. Some are writers. Some are teachers, librarians, burses, accountants, firemen and police officers. Some are students. All of us are involved and working hard to be informed. Only a few of us blog. Only a few of us are visible. Just like the pumas that we have adopted as our mascot, we are here, many, many, many of us, invisible, but real.
None of us would wish anyone of an opposing view any ill will or harm. None of us would ever assault anyone with a differing opinion, though some of us have been physically and verbally abused by those with differing points of view.
One other thing: More than 40% of our PUMA members are men. My own father is a member, and he is 79 years of age, a veteran of WWII, and a life long democrat.
Heneri
17 November 2008 at 9:31 pm
Published: April 16, 2008 12:14 pm print this story email this story comment on this story
Column: If you have the stomach, follow the money
By Rod Rose
THE LEBANON REPORTER (LEBANON, Ind.)
According to http://www.capitaleye.org, Obama and Clinton have made nearly $1 million in campaign contributions to “superdelegates” — the unelected delegates who represent about 20 percent of the 4,000 delegates to the Democratic National Convention.
As of Feb. 25, Capital Eye reported, Clinton has been endorsed by 75 percent of the superdelegates to whom her campaign donated money, when Obama did not make a donation. Obama was endorsed by 85 percent of the superdelegates who received money from his campaign and not from Clinton’s.
Is this legal? Yes.
http://www.tribstar.com/statenews/cnhinsall_story_107121456.
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 9:32 pm
“I’m 53 years old, and I’ve learned that being polite to idiots only encourages more idiocy.”
I’m also 53. I can see that you think anyone who has an opposing view other than yours is considered to be an idiot. You are attempting to discourage rebuttal by way of name calling and therefore you win by default. This sounds more like child play. It could also be an attempt to make you sound more intelligent and build your ego.
By the way..there is many more than just 25 of us. I guess ignorance is bliss and this just isn’t worth my time.
Hillicrat
17 November 2008 at 9:33 pm
Hey 1-20-09! So much fun, snarky goodness here.
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 9:33 pm
When did Obama know?
Obama Gains National Delegate in 4th District
by: John Deeth
Apr 26, 2008 at 18:30 PM
A deal between John Edwards and “another campaign” reported to Iowa Independent Wednesday did not make John Edwards viable in the 4th Congressional District, and as a result Barack Obama gained one national convention delegate at Saturday’s congressional district conventions.
The Iowa Democratic Party reports a national delegate count of Obama 16, Clinton 9, and Edwards 4 from the five conventions.
http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2269
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 9:33 pm
Ballots from Agat, Yona, Dededo could change outcome of caucus
18 villages down, 3 to go. And the remaining villages that are uncounted could possibly sway the results of the Guam Democrat Caucus in Hillary Clinton’s favor. With the votes from only Agat, Yona and Dededo left to be tabulated, the race for the presidential candidate hopeful is really starting to take an interesting twist.
http://www.kuam.com/
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 9:34 pm
If I had thee energy, I’d get the Alexa records for these dying PUMA blogs.
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 9:35 pm
greenfun — Yes, good Americans ask questions. And somebody OUGHT to do something about the Byzantine mess of the Democratic Party primary process, which Hillary Clinton — with all her guile and connections — could not finagle in her favor.
On the other hand, good Americans do not float specious rumors, Right Wing propaganda and thoroughly debunked YouTube videos as fact, just because The Most Powerful Woman in the World couldn’t beat The Scary Black Guy That 52% of Americans Wanted as President.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 9:39 pm
Heneri, if the PUMA movement is so huge how come you got under a hundred to Denver, and never ran any national ads? Either no-one donated and the figures were lies; there was no-one TO donate and the figures were lies; or you’re a national, HUGE movement that raised upwards of $6m, but Darragh pocketed it to pay back-taxes. You tell me which one.
Besides, you PUMAs are only one of two demographics in America that thinks Sarah Palin is fit to manage more than a Dunkin Donuts. Since the other demographic – fundamentalist Christians – is actually pretty big, working backwards from Palin’s approval rating, you can’t be that big.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 9:40 pm
Who knew so many sexist misogynistic bigots were hiding out behind the big “D”? It must be such a relief to let it all out after having to fake it all these years.
Irlandese
17 November 2008 at 9:43 pm
Re: traffic, they’re at the VERY bottom of Alexa’s scale, almost off the tracker. And they’ve never been very big, either.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 9:44 pm
lrlandese, I’m not sexist. That’s why I voted against McCain/Palin.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 9:44 pm
LOL – for all of their small numbers and political insignificance , you guys sure do spend a lot of time following the puma blogs and feel compelled to degrade pumas with every post .
Must really suck for you to have those 25 old women under your skin … Hate that for ya .
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 9:45 pm
I am truly sad that this was the beginning AND end of Jenni the Icepick’s “I won an hour on my local free talk station!” radio career. I suppose I’ll have to go back to knitting now for entertainment.
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 9:46 pm
Hillicrat — I don’t think I was the one who said there are only 25 PUMAs.
There must be a good 50 of you, at least.
Darragh is now claiming 9.6 million PUMAs…but we all know how that worked out. Just ask Murray at Hillary Clinton Forum.
And, by all means, check the Alexa stats online. PUMApac now has less blog traffic than the Society of Lithuanian Head-Transplant Patients.
Taylor Marsh alone could BUY the PUMAverse right now.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 9:46 pm
“Oh, and watch out for commenters like prowlerzee.”
LOL! Bless it! “Strange” is rubbing hims smarting bumcheeks is hims?
Total Bamabot, as evinced from his other comments.
And make no mistake. Jennifer is not a typical PUMA. We voted McCain/Palin as a protest vote, much as Alice Paul voted Republican in protest of the Dem lasck of support for women’s suffrage.
Look it up.
Most of us did not vote straight rethug ticket and most of us are set on reforming our Dem party. And if you think we’re not part of the national discourse now, ask why The New Agenda is supplanting NOW in coverage from the Washington Post to the Boston Globe.
Suck it up, boyz. We’re not going anywhere.
But thanks for the compliment, Strange. Whine away!
prowlerzee
17 November 2008 at 9:46 pm
Tx.Tig. – people who lie to themselves, and then lie to others, really piss me off. That’s why I love to loathe the PUMAs.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 9:48 pm
Prowler – a protest vote? Real mature. Vote against your interest, and hook your cart to a sexist, hateful, bigoted party, just to teach us a lesson. Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 9:49 pm
9 million! ROFL!!!! Damn, that’s a hell of alot of sock puppetry! Who knew so many old windbags were hiding out behind the big “P”? It must be such a relief to do something other than watch Jerry Springer.
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 9:50 pm
ANTI-PUMAS UNITE!
Irlandese is calling on “Shoot his cock off” Jennifer to mix it up:
Irlandese 11.17.08 at 9:25 pm
JenniforHillary—I am having fun with the ‘bots over at KPFT. How’re you doing, girl? Hey–if you have time, go on over there and help me set this lardhead straight!
Keep the faith, PUMA sister! XOXO your old PB buddy
How’d that protest work for y’all? PUMAs must be immune to constant, unending failure.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 9:51 pm
“Must really suck for you to have those 25 old women under your skin … Hate that for ya”
Don’t exaggerate your importance, Texas. This is a comedy show for us. Better than Seinfeld and Celebrity Rehab all in one!
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 9:53 pm
StrangeAppar8us, thanks for letting me know about the battle, this is better than primetime TV (not a great How I Met Your Mother episode…).
I also really resent being called an O-Bot. I’m at least an O-Borg.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 9:54 pm
Ok , Ames , just answer this , why was it ok for Obama to refuse to release ANY of his documents from his college applications to his papers to his Senate schedule to his communications with foreign governments or even a medical physical ? Even the Annnenberg papers had to be made available through a lawsuit .
Every other candidate has always willingly turned over any requested documents or faced severe scrutiny from the media . Why wouldn’t obama release ANYTHING ?
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 9:56 pm
Publius, you dog. Good to see you here.
For O-Borg-kind! For SPARTA!
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 9:57 pm
Really, I hope Icepick comes on over for some fun with us borg!
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 9:58 pm
Tx.Tig. – All you’ve got, as ever, is conspiracy theories. I bet he’s a secret Muslim/Alien hybrid zomg call the Enquirer! You’re just angry and lashing out irrationally at anything you think is interesting. Truth is, records aren’t that interesting. But, on that subject, why didn’t McCain release his medical records?
Come back when you’ve got substantive policies you disagree with Obama on. You know what the sad fact about this little PUMA charade is? He’s going to be a great president, and do wonderful things for women’s rights in this country, and you’ll be too pissed off to be happy about it.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 9:59 pm
Obama plans to declare victory May 20
Ah yes, wait for it– just in time for the Oregon victory, but someone set him straight:
By DAVID PAUL KUHN | 5/8/08 4:55 AM EST
Barack Obama
The Obama campaign agrees with the Democratic National Committee, which pegs a winning majority at 2,025 pledged delegates and superdelegates—a figure that excludes the penalized Florida and Michigan delegations.
Photo: AP
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10184.html
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 9:59 pm
Senator Obama has now apparently determined not to claim Victory on Tues.
[When asked again Wednesday whether he still planned to declare victory following the results from Oregon and Kentucky, Obama dispatched the suggestion with a cool stare.
“We will declare that we have the majority of pledged delegates,” Obama said, giving the question only three seconds of his time before pivoting towards the front cabin of his campaign plane.
Obama said Sunday that he has not sent mixed messages.
“What we have consistently said is that we will have the majority of pledged delegates at that point and obviously ware going to make the argument to any superdelegates remaining that we should be the nominee,” Obama said. “But until those pledged delegates actually commit to us, we won't have achieved that number yet." ]
See:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10438.html
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:00 pm
It’s No Secret: Florida and Michigan Count and Their Delegates Should Be Seated
5/4/2008 9:27:29 PM
The Huffington Post describes a “secret” plan that the Clinton Campaign has to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations. There is no secret plan. In fact, this story misrepresents the process laid out in the DNC rules for resolving the questions surrounding the seating of the Michigan and Florida delegations.
The Clinton campaign has been vocal in stating that the votes of 2.5 million people must be respected. Hardly a day goes by when a Clinton official doesn’t publicly declare that the votes of Michigan and Florida count and that the delegations from those states should be seated.
DNC members from Michigan and Florida have filed challenges with the DNC to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations. The process being followed to adjudicate these challenges is completely consistent with the DNC rules. The Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) is the DNC body charged with dealing with these challenges until the 56th day before the convention, and its process is public and transparent.
The membership of the RBC does not – in large part – turn over. A former Secretary of Labor, and the grandson of FDR who is a long time party activist and has been a co-chair of the committee for several election cycles chair it. Other members include a former chair of the party, Al Gore’s Campaign Manager (who is a former co-chair of the RBC as well), and an executive board member of the NAACP. Although the RBC is comprised of people who support both candidates, these people take their roles as party activits seriously.
The DNC process will decide the fate of the Florida and Michigan delegations. It is an open and transparent process — unlike the backroom deals proposed by the Obama campaign that would disenfranchise the nearly 2.5 million people who voted in Florida and Michigan.
http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=7495
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:00 pm
Are they talking about their prodigious numbers again? And fearsome War Chest (which I suppose would make the Obama equivalent a Hope Chest)? I thought poor Hillary could have retired her debt if every Puma of the 18 million had sent her just a dollar, but somehow she’s still behind the eight ball.
Of course, some of them, like Jennifer X, actually turned on her and began asking for their money BACK!
ladyhawkke on 11.04.08 at 6:31 pm
#50 “Asian4Hillary I also got a refund check but, truthfully, last night, I could not go to sleep because I felt sad and guilty when I received the check. My son told me that Hillary worked really hard for us and I agree with him. I just felt betrayed even though she did what she had to do. If McCain wins, I will send Hillary the check back so she can run in 2012; if he doesn’t, I will not send it back as I still think the Clinton’s overdid their support for him.
That is why I only got 5 hours sleep last night and had to take a nap today. It’s a sad day for me that Hillary will not be our President”
Mrs.Polly
17 November 2008 at 10:02 pm
No, Sarah Palin is not Hillary, but she is a competent woman governor who has made her mark. She is a feminist from a conservative background. This is unexpected in the bigoted neoliberal world, but common to all of us who are in the real world.
NOW should be ashamed for not supporting Palin’s right to run for vice president. Palin is a good example of a woman who has it all and can handle having it all.
Heneri
17 November 2008 at 10:03 pm
Pelosi warns Clinton diehards
Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Friday warned supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who are threatening to take the delegate fight as far as the Democratic National Convention, that they are pursuing “a scorched earth…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/c/a/2008/05/30/MNQE110L6T.DTL
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:03 pm
Ames – I was asking you a question – one that you could not answer , therfore I am left with the same questions that I think are acceptable for any American to ask and expect to be answered .
BTW , McCain released 1,173 pages of medical records .
And if records are not interesting , again, why not just release them ?
It is not a conspiracy to want what should be public information .
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 10:06 pm
Press Release
5/31/2008
Statement from The Clinton Campaign on the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee Meeting
Harold Ickes and Tina Flournoy made the following statement this evening:
Today’s results are a victory for the people of Florida who will have a voice in selecting our Party’s nominee and will see its delegates seated at our party’s convention. The decision by the Rules and Bylaws Committee honors the votes that were cast by the people of Florida and allocates the delegates accordingly.
We strongly object to the Committee’s decision to undercut its own rules in seating Michigan’s delegates without reflecting the votes of the people of Michigan.
The Committee awarded to Senator Obama not only the delegates won by Uncommitted, but four of the delegates won by Senator Clinton. This decision violates the bedrock principles of our democracy and our Party.
We reserve the right to challenge this decision before the Credentials Committee and appeal for a fair allocation of Michigan’s delegates that actually reflect the votes as they were cast.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7872
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:06 pm
Texas Tigress — Hmmm, I wonder. Could it be because a smart African-American candidate knew that EVERY line of his college transcripts would be subject to the Hysterical Darragh Treatment? God forbid Barack Obama would have an Afrocentric Studies course or a Whither Captalism? 101 on his record. The man would have already been beaten to death by a fistful of dusty, barren PUMA wombs by now.
Communications with foreign governments? Ask Alex Jones or the NY Times. They’ve both cover that,
Health records? We got more from Obama than we dis from the Mayor of Wasilla OR John “I’d Rather F*ck a Whore in Rio” McCain.
You THINK Obama is being secretive. But the truth is that YOU are a nasty nebbish.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 10:06 pm
Hener, if you define “feminist” as “woman,” than Phyllis Schlafly is a feminist. What’s Palin ever done for the cause of women’s rights, and what did she plan to do that wouldn’t have been stonewalled by “President” McCain?
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:07 pm
PUMA, if we’re to talk secrets and documents, what happened with the money you all donated to Darragh?
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:08 pm
Indeed–we were all DNC Partybuilder bloggers back in the day when the primary was being selected/not elected. There are still many of us determined to not let what happened go. I was proud to be called upon to comment here by another PUMA, specifically because it invoved JenniforHillary. This woman was abused by her own party, as was I, for speaking up for the truth. Apparently there are those who hold Democratic principles for Dems only interested in winning the brass ring, and not real Democracy. I’ll not be distracted by anyone. The truth lies there for anyone who really wants to see it. I went looking for answers when the “facts” made no sense to me, and what I’ve found in the last 6 months was enough for me to leave a party I’ve belonged to for 26 years. The “I told you so’s” we’ll be saying for the next 4 years will be cold comfort!
Irlandese
17 November 2008 at 10:11 pm
All the smart people who had no clue:
Economists Release Letter Opposing Clinton Gas Tax Plan
By Jonathan Weisman
Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she’ll have no truck with economists telling her where to put her gas-tax holiday.
Well, now she’s got a truckload of them.
More than 230 economists — Democrats, Republicans, advisers to past presidents and four Nobel laureates — signed a letter today opposing proposals by Clinton and presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain to suspend the 18-cent federal gas tax for the summer driving season.
“First, research shows that waiving the gas tax would generate major profits for oil companies rather than significantly lowering prices for consumers,” they wrote. “Second, it would encourage people to keep buying costly imported oil and do nothing to encourage conservation. Third, a tax holiday would provide very little relief to families feeling squeezed.”
Signatories include four Nobel laureates: Joseph Stiglitz (a Clinton White House adviser), James Heckman, Daniel Kahneman and Roger Myerson. Also signing were: President-elect of the American Economic Association Angus Deaton; former AEA presidents Charles Schultze, Alice Rivlin and Peter Diamond; former Reagan administration economist Clyde Prestowitz and former Clinton economic adviser Jeffrey Frankel. Indeed, former president Bill Clinton’s administration is well represented on the list, with the signatures of Jeffrey Liebman of Harvard University, Rebecca Blank of the University of Michigan and J. Bradford DeLong of the University of California at Berkeley.
Others are household names within the smaller household of the economics profession: John Shoven and Lawrence Goulder from Stanford, Alan Auerbach from Berkeley, David Cutler from Harvard, James Galbraith from the University of Texas and Frank Levy from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/05/economists_release_letter_oppo.html
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:13 pm
whoopsie! Somebody forgot to file her FEC report!
DARRAGH C MURPHY, TREASURER
P. U. M. A. PAC PEOPLE UNITED MEANS ACTION
[address redacted by Rumproast]
IDENTIFICATION NUMBER: C00451369
REFERENCE: OCTOBER QUARTERLY REPORT 7/1/2008 – 9/30/2008
DEAR TREASURER:
IT HAS COME TO THE ATTENTION OF THE FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION THAT YOU MAY HAVE FAILED TO FILE THE ABOVE REFERENCED REPORT OF RECEIPTS AND EXPENDITURES AS REQUIRED BY THE FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN ACT, AS AMENDED.
IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU FILE THIS REPORT IMMEDIATELY WITH THE FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION, 999 E STREET, N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C., 20463. PLEASE NOTE THAT ELECTRONIC FILERS MUST SUBMIT THEIR REPORTS ELECTRONICALLY, AS PER 11 CFR §104.18. A COPY OF THE REPORT OR RELEVANT PORTIONS MUST ALSO BE FILED WITH THE SECRETARY OF THE STATE OR EQUIVALENT STATE OFFICER UNLESS THE STATE IS EXEMPT FROM THE FEDERAL REQUIREMENT TO RECEIVE AND MAINTAIN PAPER COPIES. YOU CAN VERIFY THE COMMISSION’S RECEIPT OF ANY DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED BY YOUR COMMITTEE ON THE FEC WEBSITE AT WWW. FEC. GOV.
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 10:13 pm
Congressional Black Caucus Split Between Clinton and Obama
NNPA , News Report, Hazel Trice Edney, Posted: Jan 08, 2008
Editor’s Note:The majority of the 42-member Congressional Black Caucus who have chosen to endorse in the race is split 15-15 Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=8f096495b5b5ff31ea2e41abfa7d00a3
The split between the all-Democratic members of the CBC is as follows: Endorsing Hillary Clinton are Lee, Stephanie Tubbs Jones of Ohio; Kendrick Meek, Corrine Brown and Alcee Hastings of Florida; Yvette Clarke, Charles Rangel, Gregory Meeks and Edolphus Towns of New York; Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri; Dianne Watson and Laura Richardson of California; David Scott and John Lewis of Georgia; and Donna Christian-Christensen (V.I.).
Endorsing Barack Obama are Scott, Danny Davis, Bobby Rush and Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois; Barbara Lee of California; Artur Davis of Alabama; Gwen Moore of Wisconsin; Lacy Clay of Missouri; Elijah Cummings of Maryland; Sanford Bishop and Hank Johnson of Georgia; John Conyers of Michigan; Keith Ellison of Minnesota; Chaka Fattah of Pennsylvania; and Al Green of Texas.
Endorsing John Edwards are: Johnson of Texas; Mel Watt and G. K. Butterfield of North Carolina.
Those who had not endorsed by NNPA deadline were: Eleanor Holmes Norton of D.C.; Jim Clyburn of South Carolina; Bennie Thompson of Mississippi; Al Wynn of Maryland; William Jefferson of Louisiana; Donald Payne of New Jersey, Maxine Waters of California and CBC Chairwoman Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick of Michigan.
http://news.newamericamedia.org/
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:14 pm
lrlandese, level with me: you didn’t leave the Democrats because the Democrats abandoned your issues, you left because your candidate lost, and the Florida/Michigan debacle – a problem caused by Republicans, the solution of which was agreed to by Hillary until it became convenient for her to go back on her word gives you a convenient truth, and a way of reconciling the cognitive dissonance of undermining a candidate, now a President, who still represents your issues.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:14 pm
Ap8- “The man would have already been beaten to death by a fistful of dusty, barren PUMA wombs by now. ”
ohhhhhh- so he didn’t release his records because they would have been Scrutinized – wow- great defense.
Etiehr that or he was affraid of the pumas (all 25 or 50 of them ) – now I see . Thanks for clearing that up
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 10:15 pm
There goes the “I told you so” BS again. Here is another famous I told you so from puma, http://www.puma08.com/2008/11/03/prediction-the-inevitable-mccainpalin-landslide-mccain-palin-309-obama-biden-229/
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 10:15 pm
http://iowaindependent.com/1804/have-iowa-dems-outgrown-the-caucus-system
Have Iowa Dems outgrown the caucus system?
By T.M. LINDSEY 1/6/08 5:00 PM
(Commentary) Three days have elapsed since the Iowa caucuses, and while most of the presidential candidates have moved on to New Hampshire, some Iowa Democrats cannot shake the sense that Iowa’s first-in-the-nation status may be in jeopardy. Others are left wondering whether the caucus system itself will be resurrected four years from now.
While the Iowa Democratic Party is beaming over the record turnout that tallied 239,000 Democrats caucusing Thursday night, nearly doubling 2004’s record turnout of 124,000, the record numbers helped to illustrate some of the flaws of the actual process. “When you have a quarter of a million people turn out to caucus, you’re going to have a few problems,” Carrie Giddins, spokeswoman for the Iowa Democrats, told The Des Moines Register.
The Register’s Erin Jordan characterized these problems as “hiccups,” but if these trapped air bubbles are not addressed by the Democratic Party, the Iowa caucuses may choke themselves into extinction.
The Iowa caucuses were initially conceived to be a “gathering of neighbors,” wherein people can participate in a spirited discussion about the candidates, but this notion has been replaced in larger precincts by crowd control, fire-code violations, organized mayhem and, in some instances, mob rule.
Hiccup!Matt Palevsky and Bess Kalb at Huffington Post detailed an account of “mob mentality” in the gymnasium of Brody Middle School, where 437 neighbors gathered to caucus. Delaware Sen. Joe Biden had reached the requisite threshold of 70 but was ruled unviable when one of their people did not make it back to the group, missing the final count by a few seconds. When Biden supporter Kevin Owen complained to the precinct captain, the concern was brought to a vote, but the Biden supporters were shouted down by the collective “nays” of the front-runners.
Hiccup!
Coralville Precinct 6 had the largest turnout in Johnson County, where 762 caucusgoers joined the fray and squeezed into the Wickham Elementary School gymnasium. One participant, Meg Wagner, said that several people could not get in or find parking, so they turned around and drove home. Their voices had been silenced before they had a chance to step onto the gymnasium floor, not to mention, it is hard imagining a civil and constructive discussion transpiring among 762 people.
Hiccup!
On the bright side, 60 percent of the caucus-goers were new participants, and it’s great to see more people actively participating in the political process. Unfortunately, such a large increase means that the majority of caucus-goers had never been exposed to the strategic and numeric complexities of how the caucuses work. They were left to the mercy of their preferred candidate’s precinct captain, assuming they had one. Consequently, instead of actively participating in the process, a number of caucus rookies did as the were told: “Stay put until further instruction.”
Hiccup!
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:15 pm
*Ahem* where it says “convenient truth,” read “convenient half-truth”
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:16 pm
Lynette Long presents:
CaucusAnalysis
Data, Analysis, Articles, Testimonials & Videos
INTRODUCTION
[In two weeks the Democratic Party will formally nominate Barack Obama as its candidate for President of the United States.]
It’s the triumph of fraud.
://www.lynettelong.com/caucusfraud/
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:16 pm
You “may have” failed? BO lied about his willingness to accept public funding, therefore NEVER having to fully disclose where his funding came from. We’re used to this baloney being thrown around. I’ll be going now…..there’s nothing new here to see. Unbelievable what a few sips of KoolAid did to the American public.
Irlandese
17 November 2008 at 10:18 pm
Tx.Tig. – it looks like you’re losing this argument. Now I see why you guys censor debate at your blogs. I guess if you thought your millions of PUMAs could handle a few O-Borg equipped with facts, you wouldn’t need to hide behind the overzealous PUMA Ministry of Truth/Mod Teams.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:18 pm
lrlandese – what, no answer to me? Oh, and let’s pretend Obama lied about the campaign finance thing. Hill lied about Florida and Michigan. Months later, I still respect her and think she’s a good person. Are you mature enough to do the same? doesn’t look that way.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:19 pm
I didnt listen to the program but all I see here is a bunch of boyos getting off on dissing women. Im reading so many comments of wittier-than-thou digs on any woman over 16. Of course being xy chromosome make thou so much more wise when it comes to political analysis too.
I can only think that these boys are truly afraid of women because the ugliness just spouts up in them, over so little, just spouts up and spews over. Ive listened to Murphy before and never heard her yelling so sorry I dont buy your account of the broadcast boyo.
btw – there were many, many DOCUMENTED instances of fraud -cheating, bussing in and intimidation associated with the Dem caucuses, in Texas and elsewhere. I dont pretend to be an expert on how the Dem caucuses are run, but no I dont agree that they should be fraudulent, just as the 2000 and 2004 elections were questionable also. A political party is free to choose its candidates the way it sees fit? HUH? No, the party is not free to change the rules in the middle of the process. That is fraudulent. ergo Obama is a fraudulent president. and you boyos are fraudulent satirists. mebbe go back to listening to your public radio broadcast of the funnies, cuz this kind of thing is too much for you to handle without foaming at the mouth. Maybe yall are really the hysterical ones?
MerleyTx
17 November 2008 at 10:21 pm
Ames–don’t ever assume why I would leave a party my whole family has belonged to and supported for decades. I left because I refuse to be a part of corruption, greed, theft, lying, and FRAUD. Why, if I wanted to be a part of that, I’d have voted for BO or gone and registered Republican, because at this point he’s the biggest Republican ever voted in on a Dem ticket. Oh yeah, and FISA. Good luck–you’ll all need it.
Irlandese
17 November 2008 at 10:21 pm
Merley, I have never written a sexist comment. You’re assuming the same to dodge legitimate criticisms.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:22 pm
Oh, and thanks roofingbird for the concise, exquisite cut and paste history of the 2008 political season from FL through the rise of Lynnette Long. Go treat yourself to a nice, new battery for your mouse.
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 10:23 pm
I’m as liberal as the next Dem – probably more, look at my site
– but FISA’s a deeper issue than you’re willing to recognize. Delicate balancing of policy is a better option than knee-jerk reaction. Keep that in mind; that maxim might help resolve some of this whole PUMA thing, eventually.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:24 pm
I am a feminist, and I could have been Palin’s neighbor. A feminist is someone who believes that women are equal and acts like we are equal. Palin does that. She does it with conservative style, but she does it.
Palin has redefined the word feminist for many people. She doesn’t go out marching and bra burning. She simply gets to work doing things that she knows need to be done. For her being governor, mayor, or taking on the politicos in her own party is par for the course. That makes her a feminist. She really believes that women are equal and acts on that belief. She might not even call her self a feminist.
For all of you who think Madona or Barbra S. are the only brand of feminist, think again. That is like saying the only vehicle qualified to be called a motor car is a chevy. Never mind that there are fords and chryslers sitting in the same parking lot, having been driven to work. Palin is just a feminist of a different brand.
By the way, Phyllis is a feminist. It is just that her definition of the feminist role is contrary to what most of us think it is. Palin does not appear to adhere to Phyllis’ definition of feminism either.
The worst of the worst was brought out by the ‘traditional feminist’ movement regards to Palin. They actually attacked her for being a working mother. For all of the working mothers out there: You go Sarah! I raised two kids with the help of my husband, and I worked full time. That is what families do, work together. Sarah and Todd Palin are not unique in that they work together toward rearing their family and making a difference in their line of work.
Sarah is a feminist, and one of the best examples of one that I have ever seen.
Heneri
17 November 2008 at 10:24 pm
Ames – you’re funny , but I actually like AP8 more . There are at least some momentary glimpses of intelligence hidden throughout his diatribes . Besides , he called me a nasty nebbish and I kind of like that for a pet name
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 10:25 pm
Voter fraud and election fraud are not the same thing. Voter fraud is where a single individual, who is ineligible to vote or through subterfuge, like a wrong name, actually votes. Election fraud, is where something in the system is misused. Disenfranchisement is where you are unable to vote, Only about 2-3% of voters in caucus states actually caucus.
http://www.bradblog.com/
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:26 pm
“Maybe yall are really the hysterical ones?”
Well, first off, I’m not a “boyo”. Secondly, we’re not hysterical in the way you mean. Hysterically laughing at the failed PUMA experiment, perhaps…
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 10:26 pm
The caucus fraud in the primary was real, the sham of a Democratic Convention was real, the Acorn fraud was real,, the media misogyny was real. The foul-mouthed comments by OnewithLandrau and others–not so much. Darragh and Jennifer are bright talk show hosts. What a pity many of you are too opinionated to appreciate an opposite point of view.
A. Puma
17 November 2008 at 10:26 pm
Well, thanks for setting us straight on voter fraud vs election fraud roofingbird, but the fact is that BOTH happened. sorry, i dont like it any better than the next patriot, but there it is…..
Being situated on the side that benefitted from it ought to make an American uncomfortable, dont know if that did with the Repubs, but it clearly doesnt with the current issue of Dems.
MerleyTx
17 November 2008 at 10:30 pm
“Besides , he called me a nasty nebbish and I kind of like that for a pet name.”
I’ll be sure to tell StrangeAppar8tus that you’ve got a little thing for him if you tell Murphy and the gang back at Pumapac that you really like the abusive man at the radio blog, lol.
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 10:31 pm
laugh away gimme, leave the serious consideration of where our country is headed to the adults
MerleyTx
17 November 2008 at 10:31 pm
You are welcome. Others will pass by who want more than diatribe.
roofingbird
17 November 2008 at 10:33 pm
What a pity your an idiot.
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 10:33 pm
Which means you just disqualified yourself.
1-20-09
17 November 2008 at 10:35 pm
TexasTigress 11.17.08 at 10:28 pm
StrangeAppar8us called me a nasty nebbish – I think he is developing a crush on me
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 10:39 pm
“laugh away gimme, leave the serious consideration of where our country is headed to the adults”
And that’s just what we did. Yes we did…
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 10:40 pm
gimmeabreak- I posted that just for you
I think it’s cute how you lurk on puma – I will be sure to say hi to you from now on – I’m friendly like that 
Have a good evening , all .
Tx.Tig
17 November 2008 at 10:48 pm
HILLARY IS OURS!! COMMENCE THE EWOK DANCE!!!
Drudge (yuck) is reporting a Guardian story that Hillary bas been turned to the DARK side, and will accept the SOS position offered by Barack Obama.
I know it’s a long-shot — but if this is true, it will only be moments before Darragh, Riverdaughter, DancesWithPumas, TexasTigress, Jenniforhillary and the charming chromosomal mutant “mountainsong” are rounded up and delivered to the Anti-PUMA Earth Base at Ft, Collins, CO.
The Obama Campaign Team (my Soros-funded masters) just texted me on my Blackberry to expect transport of the PUMA posters to the FEMA-run “REX 84″ re-education camps, ASAP, and the swift conversion of all PUMA blogs to “Obama Admiration” sites.
Ames — break out the Dom Perignon ‘53!
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 10:48 pm
Oh, crap! I forgot to turn my Blackberry on!
gimmeabreak
17 November 2008 at 10:50 pm
Heneri, I think your definition is WAY off base. A powerful woman is not necessarily a feminist, because a powerful woman could be just working for herself. A feminist works for all women. With their ridiculously draconian policies on equal pay, right to choice, etc., neither Palin nor Schlafly have ever shed a tear for another woman. That you identify with her, because she works hard, doesn’t mean that she has your interests at heart. Look at her policies, not your feeling of her soul. Don’t make the mistake Bush made with Putin. I wrote a long schpeel about just how anti-feminist picking Palin was; have a read?
Anyways, unfortunately I have to run, but a short rejoinder to the old PUMA diatribe about the sexist heart of the O-Borg: it’s not so. I had a rough time deciding between Hillary and Obama, and that I settled on Obama does not make me a sexist. It was a tough choice, especially because it split my little family: my girlfriend’s a strong Hillary supporter, but from the very beginning we both knew we’d vote for the Democratic nominee, because we put sound policy judgments and the value of a progressive America above petty questions over who the avatar of those values will be.
The most important thing in this election was to get a Democrat in office; we won but, because you lost sight of that principle, you missed out on a major election, and you were on the losing side. You can complain about unsubstantiated cases of fraud, but consider Cassius’ case: isn’t it possible that the fault – dear PUMAs – is not in your stars, but in your candidate? Obama turned out to be the more electable candidate, and we won. In the long run, Obama’s policies will be better for America, and better for women. Hillary herself recognized this; why can’t you? If Obama lets us down in that regard, I’ll be disappointed too, but he has a better chance of vindicating them than McCain/Failin ever did.
Now, I’ve been honest with you. You need to be honest with us, and with yourselves.
Ah, PUMAs, let us be true to one another! [... For] here we are here as on a darkling plain, swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, where ignorant armies clash by night.
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:57 pm
Oh, and Strange – “yub yub!”
Isn’t that the Ewok noise?
Ames
17 November 2008 at 10:58 pm
You know, I’d have a giant hotcha for TexasTigress if I didn’t already know her whole life story.
On the other hand, mountainsong intrigues me. I’ve never tried to chat up someone with that many chromosomes, and he/she/whatever sounds nice. Also, I have a lot of friends out on the Navajo res at Four Corners, and I used to pimp for the medicine man of the Mandan Sioux, back before Mrs. Mankiller gave him the heave-ho.
mountainsong and I could swap Coyote stories, and dance for Wakan Tanka.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 11:03 pm
Ames — I don’t EVER want to admit that I know what “yub yub” means. I have moved beyond that.
…except, of course, for the Princess-Leia-on-a-leash thing, on which I project my current politician-du-jour, male or otherwise.
StrangeAppar8us
17 November 2008 at 11:07 pm
Ames:
Anytime you choose mediocrity over excelence you should expect to have people disagree with you. Many people, women included, have been gratuitously bashing Hillary for years. There was a purpose and a method to their actions.
Yes, Sarah Palin is a feminist. She does not need to go out campaigning for women. She only needs to do her job competently and accurately.
A civil rights leader does not have to be black. A feminist does not have to be a woman. In fact, a civil rights leader or a feminist does not have to advocate only for a minority or a woman, but for equality for all. Anything besides advocating for equality is bogus in a civil rights leader or a feminist.
Special/different treatment under the law is wrong.
I am in a profession where I was once considered an oddity because I am a woman. I simply went about my business and did what I do (real estate appraiser) with as much competence and gusto as I needed. I did not campaign for more women to join me, but I always welcomed other women in. I didn’t even talk about my minority status or use it for any advantage. I always felt that was wrong, that my work would speak for itself. And it has.
Sarah Palin has done the same. She does not have to crusade, she just has to be good at what she does. She is a feminist.
Heneri
17 November 2008 at 11:16 pm
Well, isn’t this grand? You don’t have to be a PUMA to see what was going on. I, for one, was leaning towards Clinton but got very turned off by the Obama political thugmachine so hopped on the McCain train. I saw very clearly how undemocratic the democrats were becoming. You know 2 + 2 is 4. If you can’t do the math you won’t understand how the thugs did steel the election. MOST dems wanted Hillary. Check out http://www.caucuscheating.com and if you can do simple math you will see the truth. It’s fine if you supported BO but facts are facts. The BIG picture should concern all Americans. Our voting system doesn’t work. It doesn’t nominate the winner of the people, by the people. THIS is what should concern us all. For Hillary or not, BO is not the valid winner. You got him, you probably were part of the fraud so you are not at all surprised. What’s most disturbing is that you are happy about the way you bullied and cheated. You all got what you wanted – but you lost in the long run. We are losing our voice and yours may be the next no heard.
Oh, BTW, StrangeAppar8us, you are a disgrace. I wouldn’t want to be in the same room with you. I hope my kids never know your kind. Loser!
very turned off
17 November 2008 at 11:16 pm
I just wanted to check, have the PUMAs paid off Hillary’s campaign debt yet?
No?
Oh, well then, did they release that Michelle Obama “Whitey” tape they were bleating about?
Not so much?
How ’bout that “documentary”?
Really? Not even online?
But surely, their “18 million” members must have sank Obama’s chances in the general election?
WHAT?!
Well, at least I hope all those cats got fed…
Specialist G
17 November 2008 at 11:24 pm
You Barry voters can dish it out but you can’t take it. You do not want to know the truth! The One was selected not elected by the DNC and so called super deligates! Barry has a mandatory civil servant program ready to go. The Brown Shirts. Congressman Rangle as the bill ready to be voted on in the next congress. the truth hurts and you Barry supporters do not want to hear or seek the truth! Indoctornation that is Hitler got the youth to follow him. Putin in Russia has done the same thing in Russia he has pandered and fooled the youth and guess what the young Russians hate America. Research it educate yourselves! History will show you Puma eyes are open and we are not drinking the kool-aide! Hillary won the primary the DNC and Liberal elite Super Delegates selected Barry again he was not elected. 18 million votes Hillary was elected not selected.
pumacraig
17 November 2008 at 11:26 pm
oh, i must comment on the racism — lol — i find it so funny that the Obots call everyone a racists and blame every thing on slavery
they need obama to inspire them because clearly they can’t inspire themselves !!!
simofish
17 November 2008 at 11:26 pm
VEryturnedoff:
You are right! The first thing we all need to be doing is reforming our voting system.
I have a wish list:
1. One day national primary, beginning at the same time nationwide and extending for 24 hours.
2. One day national election, 72 hours to vote, beginning and ending the same moment nationwide. No campaigning on TV or in the papers or any campaign rallies allowed during that 3 day time period.
3. Allow 1 week to count the votes. No numbers released until all votes are counted. The results are then turned over to the United States Attorney General for certification, then the winners are announced one week after the election.
4. Do away with the electoral college.
5. Every voter must be registered at least 15 days prior to the election, and show ID to vote and to register. No absentee votes allowed for newly registered voters unless the information is verified prior to the vote being cast.
6. No ACORN type voter registration drives allowed. Only official sites and sworn people would be allowed to register people to vote.
7. All voting machinery would leave a recountable paper trail.
Heneri
17 November 2008 at 11:31 pm
luv it simo! They’ve been hypnotized by their golden boy. Sad, but they are the blind sheep. I said it before – they allowed fraud of massive proportions and damage beyond repair to our constitution and democratic process. I am afraid that their movement will destroy America as we’ve known her. Reagan said it best.. “I didn’t leave the democratic party, the democratic party left me”
very turned off
17 November 2008 at 11:34 pm
What is funny is Barry is half white and his brown color is Kenyan he is not a Afro American or Black. So my black brothers and sisters voted for a brown skined half white and half kenyan. He is as much white as he is black or brown. He is not one of them and soon they will feel betrayed because he will not give us Afro-American blacks what we want. And when he fails to be black enough we will turn on him and then we will say he ain’t black he is white. He is not one of us he brown and an uncle tom! So any one who disagees with Barry and did not vote for him can not be a racist he is half white. He is not Afro American or Black he is Kenyan and white!!
pumacraig
17 November 2008 at 11:35 pm
this pace is awesome.
The puma people don’t realize they worship racists.
Dr. Lynette Long is a stone cold racist who claims the DNC rigged the primary by giving black areas more delegates.
She claims acorn is fishy because “they stand outside wallmart registering low class people.”
Jennifer calls her a lawyer. PUMA calls her a phd in mathematics.
All crap. She wrote kids books about counting.
One lie after another.
Issues? What issues. Name one issue and it will be debunked.
PUMA doesn’t have a single legitimate argument.
vic
17 November 2008 at 11:40 pm
Not going to work Vic. Try something a bit more original, like maybe something true such as we are smarter than you because we read and follow exactly what happened. Of course if you are stupid and want to call us racist that’s fine – just more of what the BO machine was doing all along.
You, Vic, must haven’t been read to much by Mommy and Daddy so you don’t know how to read and filter out the garbage from fact.
very turned off
17 November 2008 at 11:52 pm
Hi… audio is up. Go to front page of this site to listen.
Ernesto Aguilar
18 November 2008 at 12:03 am
Your argument rests on the shoulders of a racist. You have no access to her ‘data’.
You claim she possess thousands of complaints yet less than a handful of people have stepped forward and of those NONE has been independently verified.
You claimed you had 300 delegates signing some bogus letter yet you had less than 20. Hell, there aren’t even 300 pumas.
Oh yeah, another of your dear leaders SusanUnPC from noQuarter…Anther racist…
Google susan hudgens and makah indians to see the sordid history of this puma stalwart.
Every time one of you puma reprobates says or does something nasty and outrageous you all claim they are part of a ‘different’ puma.
Like when the anti Semite Andy Martin showed up to your super secrete, no media, puma ‘conference’ you all claimed he was there ‘reporting’ the event when pictures of him surfaced.
Amazing how the racist Martin, credited with starting the Obama is a Muslim smear email, was the only reporter to break the secret code and find the meeting.
vic
18 November 2008 at 12:06 am
Poor PUMAs. While conservatives found themselves on the wrong side of history on November 4, the PUMAs weren’t even part of it. They were outside of history, their nose pressed up against the glass.
The Democratic Party and enlightened Americans everywhere bid you good riddance and trust you will enjoy your future in the Lyndon LaRouche wing of political irrelevance. Roar!
Specialist G
18 November 2008 at 12:09 am
The apology letter is a mealy-mouthed backdown from honest broadcasting and journalism. I listened to the whole show, and found the ladies very reasonable in response to unremitting rude and dismissive attacks by Obama supporters.
It is a very noticeable and strange characteristic of such supporters that they throw all restraint to the winds when faced with even mild disagreement.
As for the candidate himself, he evidently fears criticism more than anything else himself, else why would he have sealed and denied access to every scrap of documentation about his life over which he has even indirect control? There has never been a politician elected to prominent office about whom less has been known.
President Pig in the Poke may turn out to be seriously diseased.
Brian H
18 November 2008 at 12:10 am
Somebody please tell me who called the Pumatrons “racist.”
Are they reading this thread or just knee-jerking their usual responses to abject failure?
Thanks in advance.
StrangeAppar8us
18 November 2008 at 12:16 am
Posted (almost) without comment, from the PUMApac blog:
mountainsong 11.17.08 at 10:21 pm
I’ve just been lurking today. The blog has been……disturbing.
When I was 15, in the state of Michigan, I wa dragged screaming and kicking,strapped to a table, anesthetized with sodium pentothal and given electro-shock therapy. Because I identify as female and didn’t know how to talk about it. Couldn’t, because no one would hear of it. I knew from my earliest recollection.
I was literally forced into being raised as a male. Even though I had ambiguous genitalia at birth.
I was given 3 out of 4 treatments, when I finally rebelled and threatened to kill myself or anyone who came near me before I’d let them do THAT to me again.
I’ve asked here before, what is WRONG with being female.
All the while growing up, I looked like a girl in boy’s clothes. The girls laughed and the boys beat me up 3 or 4 times a week on a regular basis the whole time I was growing up. Then, when I was 19, in Hollywood, CA. I was brutally beaten and sexually assaulted by 4 older men.
Do I hate men? That’s a strong word, but ‘dislike intensely’ works good.
Lorena Bobbit let the bastard off too lightly. I would have put it in the garbage disposal.
Is she/he hot or what?
StrangeAppar8us
18 November 2008 at 12:19 am
I did.
All one has to do is listen to their blogtalk radio show long enough.
Read their blog posts and comments.
What is the point of coddling these people? Like I said. There isn’t a single argument they have that stands up to scrutiny.
If some of the lemming pumas aren’t racist..tough shit.
If they lack the critical thinking skills to question the sources of their information when the data isn’t transparent, I’m not going to worry about individual puma’s feelings about being called racist.
vic
18 November 2008 at 12:24 am
So you call following Darr ughhhh and Will the Queen puma Bower smart? You talk about kool aid drinkers and bots however you are the biggest drinkers of all! Where’s the 10 million dollars that was promised to Hillary? Where is all that money you donated to your puma cult figure? Your facts are based on conspiracy theories, while our opinion of your pac is based on factual evidence, just a few hardball shows prove our point. If it wasn’t out there for people to witness for themselves they would think we were making this sh*t up!
1-20-09
18 November 2008 at 12:26 am
I just love all their “stories”. Can ANYONE one up poutingsong’s lovely tale?
berkelbees
18 November 2008 at 12:27 am
“Are they reading this thread or just knee-jerking their usual responses to abject failure?”
Nah. They’re just doing exactly what they always do – carpet-bomb a blog with uninformed tripe with the aid of their Acme Cat-A-Pult, acting like the primaries hasn’t taken place yet, let alone the election. They can’t function outside an echo chamber, so they try hard to manufacture one wherever they may roam.
***BREAKING NEWS***
It’s over, PUMA. No matter who won, you lost. The rest is just blah.
What leverage your great big fat lies may have had when No Quarter etc. were trying to sway undecided delegates with dark rumors of the Whitey Tape etc. has now vanished as the country – and the world – moves on to tackle what ails it after 8 years of Republican neocon misrule.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 12:29 am
she/he is definitely a Jerry Springer episode waiting to happen..
1-20-09
18 November 2008 at 12:29 am
vic, the more your scream RACISTS!! RACISTS EVERYWHERE, the more you sound like an unhinged idiot, screaming boogie man, and foaming at the mouth, head spinning around. Is that all you have? So….lacking.
Having listened to the show, I have no idea what the whole explanation by Ernesto was for, or why it was merited. It was a call in show, for Pete’s sake. Although I got that a couple of callers didn’t understand the point of the format. The point is to call in with an opinion or question, and let other listeners have the opportunity to do the same. The point is not call in and demand! to hijack the whole show from the hosts. And yes, the hosts always have the last word.
sam
18 November 2008 at 12:36 am
More on the Cat-A-Pult as a political tool can be found here, under “Gifts for the Crazy Cat Lady in Your Life” (she said it):
Described as “Do cats really always land on their feet? With the Cat-A-PultTM you can put the old saying to the test by flinging felines across the room. Just load one of the 1-3/8″ plastic cats into the 5-3/4″ plastic catapult and pull the trigger! Its the best thing since cat juggling! 4 cats included.”
http://idreaminshadesofblue.wordpress.com/author/blueeyegirl/page/2/
The manufacturers claim max. projection of 15 feet. YMMV, Darragh & co.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 12:37 am
Strange is no reason to be hateful and ugly. Your boy won but you still lost. Again, if you can’t do the math you just won’t get the truth.
Don’t worry about me posting anymore – I’m done here. You all made our bed and now you can lie in it but I think I’ll sleep in the basement until 2012. Politics have changed, you bet, and as bad as they are it’s only gonna get worse. Our freedoms are going to disappear one by one. I will support anyone with character even if my candidate lost. But I will not support a liar and a fraud. BO is not my president. I didn’t select him and the people didn’t elect him.
‘night all
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 12:42 am
jenny — damn. Just damn.
Welcome aboard.
StrangeAppar8us
18 November 2008 at 12:44 am
ahhhh, StrangeAppar8us… I was trying so, so hard to get a response from you. You don’t have any balls – but of course you already told us that.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 12:51 am
sam: “and yes, the hosts always have the last word.”
Shock jocks operate that way. Squabbling newlyweds act that way. It may be factually correct—the hosts have the dump button, the callers are powerless–but that’s also known as bullying.
Listening to opposition respectfully, considering, and responding, is the sign of a genuinely powerful individual. That was certainly not demonstrated by Darragh Murphy or Jennifer X, nor is it demonstrated on the PUMAPAC blog.
Mrs.Polly
18 November 2008 at 12:52 am
nor was it demonstrated at the caucuses…
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 12:54 am
Hi back, StrangeAppar8us.
Given the uneven tenor of some of the posts above, I should point out that the “Crazy Cat Lady Toy” shown above the Cat-A-Pult on that blog I linked is IN NO WAY intended to be a caricature of Murphy, Riverdaughter or mountainsong.
But on the other hand.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 12:54 am
Very Turned Off:
You call me hateful and ugly. But that’s what those FOOLS called me at Leipzig!
While you are sleeping till 2012, I WILL CREATE A RACE OF ATOMIC ANTI-PUMA SUPERMEN who will be waiting to greet you.
There is no excuse for stupid, Very, even if stupid is a soft, warm place to curl up.
See you in four years. Bring a steel cup.
StrangeAppar8us
18 November 2008 at 12:55 am
Might as well take up residence in your basement until 2016. Our “boy” will be in office until then.
Riddle me this. Why is Obama often referred to as “boy”?
It certainly cannot be a racial connotation. Not at all.
berkelbees
18 November 2008 at 12:56 am
very turned off: “BO is not my president.”
The Constitution would beg to differ.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 12:56 am
YOU may not have selected him but 68 million people elected him!
1-20-09
18 November 2008 at 12:58 am
Yes, no excuse for stupid. No excuse for the foolish selection you all made. The antichrist will come and many will believe…. aahhhhhhhhhhhhh, the fools rush in.. to believe one man can do it all with no accomplishments to boast of.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 1:00 am
the constitution?? What constitution? The same one that clearly states eligibility to become potus requires being a natural born citizen. Good grief Jen, Jen… wake up and see what all our politicians are doing to us. No, BO is not even American, let alone my president.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 1:02 am
Oh no, not the COLB conspiracy again! LOL I think it’s past your bedtime vto
1-20-09
18 November 2008 at 1:04 am
he’s a boy because he is a puppet. If he was his own man he wouldn’t be where he is. There you go again, calling me a racist. It’s like crying wolf – won’t work anymore.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 1:04 am
CRAP!!! Where have I BEEN!!!!! No where in my tealeaves did I ever see that coming! IT IS THE END I TELL YOU!!!
WE ARE DOOOMMED!
I forgot to ask. Who is the antichrist?
berkelbees
18 November 2008 at 1:05 am
Then all the swinging dick PUMAS are boys as well. Puppets for Murphy.
Thanks for clearing that up, boy.
berkelbees
18 November 2008 at 1:08 am
“the constitution?? What constitution? The same one that clearly states eligibility to become potus requires being a natural born citizen. Good grief Jen, Jen… wake up and see what all our politicians are doing to us. No, BO is not even American, let alone my president.”
Bulshit. Plain and simple to the wide awake and undeluded or blinded by racist blinkers. Aren’t you supposed to be tucked up in your bunker, BTW?
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 1:08 am
I don’t have a bedtime… I’ll be paying out the nose for the lazy and “less fortunate” – but heck, I can afford it. Just take from me and hand it over to those who need it. If the COLB issue was not at the very least of curiosity then why is it simply not produced? My point is simple, why is there just too many questions about the DNC’s choice?
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 1:12 am
I thought it was interesting that at 24:10 in the interview icepick finds a white woman protesting with a group she characterizes as people from ACORN and asks her if she is proud to be with that “side”. I’m assuming that the group is mostly black. If she isn’t racist why did she single out the white person? Sounds like she thinks white people shouldn’t be associating with “those people”.
Another Donna
18 November 2008 at 1:12 am
racist racist racist… okay, calling us racist did help BO – just one piece of the fraudulent thug machinery you all perpetuated. Time to take your meds Jen.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 1:14 am
very turned off: “If the COLB issue was not at the very least of curiosity then why is it simply not produced?”
Because it drives right-wing racist wingnuts crazy, wastes all their time and energy and keeps them off the street.
And you keep falling for it. Oh well.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 1:15 am
Jenny, Jenny is it you? the dark haired beauteous Ohio icon, Found fifties’ foul and male lurking in the children’s chat? Speak these numbers to me to Jenny dear, that I may fit the curve of them within my ear, TOPIX 623.
roofingbird
18 November 2008 at 1:18 am
I told y’all they were racists.
So very turned off, not only is Obama not really black, he’s wasn’t born in the US? Wow, and I guess you have a battery of on the record experts proving his Birth Certificate is fake.
What? You don’t?
You mean not a single ‘expert’ is willing to put his name on any ‘debunking’?. Shocking.
When 72% of Americans have a positive view of Michelle Obama it says a lot about the puma loons running around calling her an ugly, hateful, racist.
Me thinks they doth project too much.
vic
18 November 2008 at 1:19 am
Just finished listening to the MP3 of the radio show. Wow.
This was one of the best examples of how the PUMAs can’t seem to function outside one of their litterboxes.
In a PUMA litterbox, they can remain one with landru, hearing nothing but the carefully edited comments from other PUMA sockpuppets and kool-aid drinkers. They can believe they paid down Sen. Clinton’s campaign debt (they didn’t), they can believe their Washington DC conference was a big event (it wasn’t), they can believe they made a difference in Denver (they didn’t). They can believe in Berg, and Martin, and Murphy, and Bowers, and that winged fairies from far far away are going to wave their magic wands, drive away teh ebil Obambi, and restore the Blessed Saint Hillary, Warrior/Martyr of the PUMA cause, into her rightful place.
Problem is the version of “Dear Hillary” they believe in has nothing in common anymore with the REAL Sen. Hillary Clinton. Indeed, PUMAs actions have spit on everything Sen. Clinton stands for.
Once they venture outside of the safety of the PUMA litterboxes though, they meet reality, and it’s far different than they are used to. They can’t accept that 52% of the American people weighed the scales and decided Barack Obama would be a better president than John McCain. They can’t acccept there’s absolutely no real evidence that Obama was born anywhere BUT Hawaii. They can’t accept their made up demon bears as much relation to the real thing, as their version of “Dear Hillary” has with Sen. Clinton.
In short, they freak out when reality isn’t like the safely padded and censored world they find at PUMAPAC, Riverdaughter, TexasDarlin, and many of the other PUMA litterboxes.
Which explains why “Jennifer” and Murphy acted as rude, obnoxious, loud, and arrogant towards the callers as they did. Because they couldn’t stand the cold light of reality showing their little fantasy world is as hollow and empty as a rotting jack o’lantern 3 weeks after Halloween. Their minds are made up, don’t confuse them with facts – or reality.
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 1:20 am
roofingbird: “Jenny, Jenny is it you? the dark haired beauteous Ohio icon, Found fifties’ foul and male lurking in the children’s chat? Speak these numbers to me to Jenny dear, that I may fit the curve of them within my ear, TOPIX 623.”
Care to try that again? In English this time, if you can.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 1:20 am
Mrs.Polly, the callers are not powerless, that’s just a lame excuse for the poor performance of the callers. The callers have all the power and opportunity to call in and give their opinion and join in a back and forth with the hosts. Not to make ludicrous demands to take over and rudely go on when the host wants to give other callers on hold the power to speak as well. That caller just lost his grip and became a shrill whiner. Jenny should have exercised her right as host to dump him, but she kindly allowed him to go on. Go back and listen.
And furthermore, the callers also have the equal responsibility to be respectful, considerate, and not freak out that they can’t get their long-winded ME! ME! ME! ONLY ME! time on a radio show to jack off to the sound of their voices to. If they want to run at the mouth, they should win their own radio time slot.
sam
18 November 2008 at 1:22 am
uuuhhh, I was a Hillary supporter. You don’t have a clue. You can’t even be objective enough to simply put yourself in another’s position who might have serious and real doubts about a candidate. This reminds me of all the BO supporters screaming for the Clintons tax returns like it mattered. You are all scary and creepy individuals who cannot seem to have a little understanding as to why there are doubts. When has any unknown person with associations like your ‘boy’ has walked right into the White House? You think I’m a shallow, a gun lovin’ redneck. You are so wrong. I voted for Gore – then Kerry (didn’t even know why) and then Hillary, McCain GE. Not bcuz I’m a racist as you like to claim. Bcuz I have a good instinct and I was very informed and educated about what went on. It turns my stomach that we have so many uninformed left lunatics voting. Barack the vote said it all.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 1:23 am
Mrs.Polly, the callers are not powerless, that’s just a lame excuse for the poor performance of the callers. The callers have all the power and opportunity to call in and give their opinion and join in a back and forth with the hosts. Not to make ludicrous demands to take over and rudely go on when the host wants to give other callers on hold the power to speak as well. That caller just lost his grip and became a shrill whiner. Jenny should have exercised her right as host to dump him, but she kindly allowed him to go on. Go back and listen.
And furthermore, the callers also have the equal responsibility to be respectful, considerate, and not freak out that they can’t get their long-winded ME! ME! ME! ONLY ME! time on a radio show to jack off to the sound of their voices to. If they want to run at the mouth, they should win their own radio time slot.
sam
18 November 2008 at 1:23 am
O joy it is! I know that simple snap, that lies upon the floor. Truly you have strength of hate to mumble along so long.
roofingbird
18 November 2008 at 1:25 am
Oh i almost forgot.
Here is Obama’s birth certificate. It is the same one he used to get his passport.
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_3.jpg
And, before you go off on ANOTHER conspiracy tangent factcheck.org is not ‘in the tank’ for Obama. The annenburg challenge is run by republicans. Annenburg was a Ronald Reagan appointee, and his widow maxed out to McCain.
Obama traveled to Pakistan legally. There was no travel restriction during the 80s. If you think there was, prove it.
Obama has shown his Birth Certificate, he has shown his passport.
These lawsuits have and will be dismissed.
You all repeat crap racists are feeding you.
vic
18 November 2008 at 1:31 am
So let’s get this straight.
Ernesto Aguilar: “Once the show was done, the general manager and I received a flood of calls and email, all of it negative, about the tone of the program, the treatment of callers and actions of the host and guest.”
So I must assume that the PUMAs posting here either consider Ernesto Aguilar a liar (they didn’t get loads of calls of complaint), or a rube so stupid that he and his experienced station staff can’t recognize an orchestrated phone-in campaign when it happens (Obamabots did it then ran away).
Give me a king-size break with a cherry on top.
This is what listeners to this station thought of the show and the content and the conduct of it.
You know, when reality doesn’t suit you, you can’t just rewrite it to fit.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 1:31 am
Sam – My, how mature you are. *Chuckle* Is that the best you can do, drag in my hobbies, (oh, you forgot the middle ages costumes I wear in the SCA as well. Well, me, my daughter, my fiance, and most of my non-political friends……)
All you can do is snipe at my hobbies and make sexist comments.
What a sad life you lead.
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 1:36 am
Oh Vic, Factcheck doesn’t have a vault copy. There is so much that has already rebuffed what they put on the website.
All I ask as that you all not put anyone above the law. Not even your cult leader.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 1:38 am
very turned off – the only people who have “rebuffed” the COLB that FactCheck saw was “Polarik” and “TechDude” – and both their work has been debunked by real computer forensic experts. Ones that don’t hide behind screen names and have put their professional reputations on the line, rather than be faceless internet “experts”.
“Polarik” and “TechDude” can claim the sky is purple with yellow polkadots all they want, but at the end of the day, the sky is still blue.
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 1:44 am
Idiot vto ‘vault copy’ is something the racist andy martin made up, you read on freerepublic or some hate site, and are repeating as if it means something.
Obama has a passport. How do you reckon he got it?
vic
18 November 2008 at 1:45 am
Sad to see community radio getting duped into giving these fools a voice, although, the more they come out into the light and have to actually defend their absurd positions, the better. The PUMA blogs restrict all dissenting comments, so, it’s only on shows like these that they are ever challenged, and we see how well that went for them. LOL. It did make for some great coemdy, though! Congrats on that aspect of it!!!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 1:46 am
Patrick McKinnion: “… the only people who have “rebuffed” the COLB that FactCheck saw was “Polarik” and “TechDude” – and both their work has been debunked by real computer forensic experts.”
Not only that, but their “expert” claims were rejected out of hand by the judge at the same time he tossed one of the cases out for lack of standing. Meanwhile, the State of Hawaii has confirmed the veracity of Obama’s COLB as presented in image form on factcheck and other locations.
But these facts are never trotted out by propagandists like very turned off. So more wingnuts waste their lives with this rubbish. Boo hoo.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 1:48 am
Even more amusing was when Gloria Allred went on the PUMA radio show and then proceeded to endorse Obama “1000 percent”. After the PUMAs had propped her up as the best thing since sliced bread, and extolled her many virtues as a feminist and Clinton supporter, they immediately threw her under the bus for supporting Obama and even claimed she was an O-bot plant who never actually supported Hillary!!
They are all just stuck on stupid. Facts are simply not a part of their strange tin-foil-hat-wearing, bat$hit-crazy existence…
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 1:52 am
Sam – you forgot the 501st stuff as well. *Laugh*
You know, trying to attack me over my hobbies, (and they’re NOT cheap hobbies either), is a lot like trying to drain the ocean with a strainer. You’re going to put a lot of time and effort into something that the ocean won’t care about and won’t make a difference.
Expecting me to defend or explain my hobbies is like demanding someone defend or explain their model railroad set. They’re going to look at you like you’re nuts and suggest you find a hobby of your own.
Kinda like what I’m doing now.
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 1:52 am
Patrick — I thought you looked very fetching!
But don’t worry about sam, it’s so obviously all he’s got.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 1:54 am
Patrick…personal attacks are all they can ever come up with, seeing as how facts, reason, and reality are simply NOT on their side– EVER.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 1:55 am
Patrick McKinnion — proud founder of The Knights That Go NoPUMA!
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 1:58 am
Pay no attention to the man behind the Jenny. He’s been practicing his trade since at least March on Topix. 20 posts alone on just the 12th of November. Surely this a great feat, oh wait- it’s your job! Such hard work, to get the slightest skew; every day a new line to send out!
roofingbird
18 November 2008 at 1:59 am
You guys are right, I’m wrong. I just saw the vault, actual Birth Certificate of Obama on the internet. Golly gee, I feel stupid. We all know the internet doesn’t lie.
Fools rush in……….
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 1:59 am
Awww, I think they’ve gone away, back to the safety of the pumapac, where they need not defend any of their absurd positions and where their insanity is validated by all…
Guess they can’t handle the real, unmoderated world. So sad…but not at all surprising.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 1:59 am
very turned off– do you think the PUMAs never lie? Wow, you really are a bit slow, eh?
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:01 am
Oh, PUMA’s are my messiah. We all have one you know…
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:01 am
roofingbird: “Pay no attention to the man behind the Jenny. He’s been practicing his trade since at least March on Topix. 20 posts alone on just the 12th of November. Surely this a great feat, oh wait- it’s your job! Such hard work, to get the slightest skew; every day a new line to send out!”
LOL. Finally, some grammatical sentences (well, thereabouts).
Not even close, BTW. No cigar. Jenny’s not an uncommon name, but let’s have another of your glorious conspiracy theories. I got popcorn.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:03 am
Well, I have heard at least one PUMA say “Darragh tells us what to believe and what not to believe and she gets rid of the comments that are no good for us” that is rather frightening…
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:03 am
and yours never lies… (ears grow rather than his nose)
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:03 am
jenny, you must, of course, be a paid Obama blogger like the rest of us, right?
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:04 am
Jenny – I look at it this way. Sam sees it as “look at what that freak is wearing”.
I look at it as watching kids (and adults) go “wow, that is a COOL outfit!” (and they do)
I like my version of it much better.
Besides, my daughter likes “dressing up” and going to events and conventions with me. And that’s all that matters, really.
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 2:05 am
VTO–I’ve not said anything about who I supported in the election, so, don’t see where your comments are coming from on that subject–I just think the PUMAs are idiots.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:05 am
Jen, Jen… what you on baby? Me think you are high on some of that mountain weed you all hold hands and sing “Obama’s gonna change the world”. Barefoot and waiting for the check in the mail.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:06 am
not a fan of puma: “jenny, you must, of course, be a paid Obama blogger like the rest of us, right?”
Aha! Thanks for the translation. I couldn’t fathom what she (he? if we’re being all suspicious now and all) was blethering on about. And what’s Topix? It sounds a bit shady.
Still, poor old Jenny whoever on Topix will no doubt be taking some heat from her stalker roofingbird (is that a real name or what?) for anything I post here tonight. Her turned to be mystified, I guess.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:09 am
I never said I was a PUMA. I just happen to think they have founded and truth based reasoning. I’m not at all slow like you say. I’m lightyears ahead of these bots.
So, no fan puma, who is your “messiah”. I am Christian so I am not being disrespectful.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:10 am
Here’s some questions for the PUMAs:
Why was Darragh’s mom (MamaPuma) throwing her lot in with conservative litigator extraordinaire Charles Darling in the late 90s? Hmmmm. Democrat my A##!!
What happened to the buses to Denver that PUMApac raised $$ for?
If there are 200+ Puma bloggers, why did only 35 people show up at the PUMA conference, and maybe 25 in Denver?
Seems to me PUMApac is engaged in the long-con, bilking stupid folks outta their hard-earned $$$ every day. Where is Darragh’s FEC filing (she hasn’t submitted one since June)???
ROAR!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:11 am
Jenny – it’s a common PUMA myth that started back in May during the primaries. That Obama had 400 “paid bloggers” to attack people speaking against him.
Like most of their claims, it had little to no basis in reality. Except as an excuse by PUMAs not to listen to what someone is saying.
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 2:12 am
Patrick, let me be clear, i have neither asked that you defend yourself nor am i interested. but blah blah blah, keep talking about it if you must. i couldn’t care less if you are stuck in a loop and can’t get off. blah blah blah, please do continue.
sam
18 November 2008 at 2:13 am
very turned off: “Jen, Jen… what you on baby? Me think you are high on some of that mountain weed you all hold hands and sing “Obama’s gonna change the world”. Barefoot and waiting for the check in the mail.”
Yes, yes. And all those people who deluged the radio station to complain about jenniforhillary and Darragh’s idiocy were paid lackeys too. As are the station staff. They’re everywhere. Everywhere.
Seriously, you’re probably better off in your bunker.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:13 am
VTO—I never said I was a PUMA. I just happen to think they have founded and truth based reasoning. I’m not at all slow like you say. I’m lightyears ahead of these bots.
——————————————
Please provide an example of any founded and truth based reasoning coming from the PUMAs, please, please, please…
This should be really amusing…
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:13 am
I can’t convince a bot. I don’t even bother… yawn. I couldn’t even lead a bot to water if he was thirsty.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:15 am
Patrick, wait, you mean we AREN’T going to get paid???!!!!! WHAT??????!!!!
LMFAO…
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:15 am
But the Obot sure can lead them to anywhere and they gleefully baaah, baahh all the way there.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:16 am
VTO—I can’t convince a bot. I don’t even bother… yawn. I couldn’t even lead a bot to water if he was thirsty.
———————————————-
Wow, way to dodge answering that question…you prove my point. Thanks for that.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:17 am
I am very tired and this is not constructive. I need to go to Americac2c to recover and get back my country.
‘night for real this time so you can all slam me behind my back
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:18 am
But the Obot sure can lead them to anywhere and they gleefully baaah, baahh all the way there
———————————————–
Clearly, as I suspected, once PUMAs are out of their safe, moderated den, they cannot defend their positions to save their lives. Very sad, and, the exact reason I think PUMAs are idiots.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:18 am
not a fan of puma: “Patrick, wait, you mean we AREN’T going to get paid???!!!!! WHAT??????!!!!
LMFAO…”
Yup. I guess all they fancy-dancy suits are gonna have to go back to the vendor!
sam — The thing is, Patrick knows the difference between fantasy and reality (and more power to him if it gives him and others harmless pleasure).
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:19 am
Sam – you brought it up, not I.
All it told me was that your opinions were pretty weak sauce.
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 2:20 am
Why is Patrick’s hobby at all relevant to this discussion, sam? Seriously, if you have something to offer, something fact based, or a reasoned argument for why you support the PUMAs, please do share it with the group.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:21 am
NAFOP… do the research yourself if you care to know so much. You can’t make the blind see and you can’t change a closed mind. But if you can do simple math go to http://www.caucuscheating.com and you may perhaps learn how democracy has failed us once again.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:21 am
This isn’t you?
jenny623 wrote:
No you can’t respond. You insist on using heterosexual terminology to discribe a union that’s same sex. It won’t work. Give it a different name, and then fight for your rights. Don’t step on the traditional marriage views in order to make them change. That’s not happening. It won’t happen. Too many people fighting to keep that defined as a man and woman. So change the terminology to suit same sex.
There has never been a time or place in which homosexuality was completely absent. Nor is the word marriage a historical constant either in definition or linguistics. The ways in which humans have bound themselves one to another have had innumerable permutations and connotations. Many cultures of the past and present have included homosexual unions and marriages in the same contexts as heterosexual. Marriage in today’s context in the US has no religious or cultural restrictions but is a legal term that refers to the intention of to people to legally join their lives and have that legal situation recognized by the US govt.
This does not by definition preclude the homosexual community. Nor does the current definition of marriage as I have shown above.
roofingbird
18 November 2008 at 2:21 am
“I am very tired and this is not constructive. I need to go to Americac2c to recover and get back my country.”
*adds URL to stalker’s blogroll*
See ya there, honey!
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:22 am
VTO- I have done the research. The PUMAs claims are NOT supported by the facts. The site you provide does not contain verifiable, sourced information, it’s more of the same. Seriously, you are abviously not a complete dolt, how can you support these PUMA fools?
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:24 am
“This isn’t you?
jenny623 wrote: …”
Nope, sorry to disappoint you. The blog-o-sphere’s small, but apparently not that small.
What you posted above’s not far from my own views on that issue, for sure, but I’d rather support my LGBT friends in what they feel right for themselves than tell them what they should do.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:25 am
yep, you think I am an idiot but I know you are.. and that has made all the difference.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:27 am
very turned off — More comebacks than Sinatra!!!
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:27 am
WOW, surprisingly VTO is going to a site where PUMA views are validated, and dissent/debate is NOT welcome, so very truly democratic and American of them!!
From the site:
America c2c is a working site for the republican base and those of like minds from across the country. With that said let me explain to the Obama people that have arrived a few things.
1. This site is not for you-you need to go join your own site if you no
longer have one, too bad.
2. America c2c is not nor will it be your platform to use.
3. America c2c is not open to you engaging nor debating with our
members, our members are not interested.
4. You will be banned every single time you join, this has nothing to do with your freedom of speech it does however have to do with the simple fact that you are not invited.
If this offends you and you feel that your rights or your freedoms are being violated then I ask you to take it up somewhere else and not here. As I stated above, this is a working site not a debate forum and you are not welcome here.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:27 am
not a fan of puma — Sounds like a classic recipe for a bunker to me.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:29 am
jenny, VTO does not like to have to debate any positions, just likes to be among like-minded folks that don’t pose any intellectual challenge whatsoever…not a surprise. VTO- how very PUMA of you!!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:29 am
Jen, Jen, I only gave it out bcuz I know they’ll block you. It’s a site for the true American who loves his country. You aren’t welcome there.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:30 am
Great to know those folks in Palin’s “Real America” are so open to defending or debating their ideas…it’s no wonder the republican party is becoming a fringe minority of conspiracy theorists and alienating their own party members in droves. I say they should keep it up, they’ll never win an election again!! I support that 1000 percent!!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:32 am
“Jen, Jen, I only gave it out bcuz I know they’ll block you. It’s a site for the true American who loves his country. You aren’t welcome there.”
Ha! Give me a break. I infiltrated there along with the entire east Pittsburgh echelon of the United Obamabots Against Fascists (crap acronym, great constitution) the minute that site started.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:33 am
Jen, Jen, I only gave it out bcuz I know they’ll block you. It’s a site for the true American who loves his country. You aren’t welcome there.
———————————————
VTO- hate to burst your bubble but “true Americans” come with all sorts of differeing views, that is ACTUALLY one of the foundations of this great nation of ours, but apparently you somehow missed that fact!!!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:34 am
See there’s the difference between PUMAs and so called “obots” we don’t have to hide in moderated forums, we are happy to debate you fools, not that any of you will ever actually have the bal#s to do so.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:37 am
very turned off – “It’s a site for the true American who loves his country.”
But they let you on anyway??
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 2:37 am
oh, and I guess by your constant utter of my idiocy it make it true. I truly would like to discuss fact and not fiction but it’s been too, too many months of me going at it with the bots and now that he’s in I am resting a bit. I’ll give you credit and assume you’ve done all your “research” but you shouldn’t assume I haven’t. Frankly, I wouldn’t waste my time if I hadn’t confirmed everything I not only believe but that I’ve experienced. Are you from a caucus state? You didn’t see it bot. So, bots, give it a rest. You’ve allowed our democracy to crumble a bit more.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:37 am
Whisper it quietly, but they’re also not all “he”.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:37 am
“Are you from a caucus state? You didn’t see it bot. So, bots, give it a rest. You’ve allowed our democracy to crumble a bit more.”
Actually, I AM in a caucus state. And saw none of the problems the PUMAs are so fond of reporting.
I admit, I don’t like the caucus system much myself, but the time to fix it is AFTER the election, not during, and not to excuse why your choice lost.
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 2:39 am
oh, and I guess by your constant utter of my idiocy it make it true.
———————————-
Nope, you are demonstrating that all on your own, thanks. Again, please give me one reasoned factual position of the PUMAs?
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:41 am
And, do you propose reforming the Democratic primary caucus system by becoming a Republican? That makes no logical sense. The system needs to be reformed from within the party.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:42 am
Jen, and just the way you bullied your way into a site that stands for proud Americans is the way your cult leader bullied his way into the White House. Of course with the help of your type.
And Not a Fan, my point precisely – there was nothing American about the way Obama “won” his candidacy. U implied you were’t a bot… hee, hee, that’s funny. I knew you were a bot from the start. Liberal nut.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:42 am
“Not a fan of puma”, why do you feel the need to rush to Patrick’s defense? Patrick needs all his fellow PUMA haters to rush to the defense of his….hobby? Seriously? And why do I owe you an argument or explanation for my support of the PUMAs? Why is my support even an issue? What are you going to do, GRADE my support, judge or rate it, like, whether it is justified or worthy enough? Seriously? Just take it as a given, will ya. Here’s the better question, why are you so obsessive about the PUMAS anyway, “not a fan of puma”? What is that all about? Let me see, Obama supporters having opinions = good. Non-Obama supporters having opinions = BAD BAD BAD MUST MAKE UP NAME TO SHOW HOW MUCH I HATE THEM AND SPEND ALL MY TIME ON HATING PUMAS.
And Patrick, that’s right buddy, I brought it up, you just keep going on and on and on and on and on and on about it. Fixated much?
sam
18 November 2008 at 2:43 am
I wasn’t a dem to begin with. The dems sure taught me what I din’t want to represent so I can say that I am now a moderate republican.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:44 am
I applaud the IcePick and Murphy program.
PumaLoons wanted an opportunity to speak for themselves, and they got it.
They spoke for themselves, and everybody listening definitely got it.
I almost wrecked my car driving in, I was laughing so hard.
It was a public service.
I was just listening to KPFT on my work break and they’re STILL talking about it on the air.
As far as Houston Pacifica listeners, PUMA went from obscurity to total infamy in one hour.
It’s astounding that the Puma Litterboxers took that as a Win, it was an EpicFail of Catastrophic idiocracy
It was like Scooter going onto an Am radio station in Miami to laud the socialist accomplishments of Fidel Castro.
They didn’t even know where they were.
Best Program of the Year for free speech, and discount pricing on rope.
KPFT listener
18 November 2008 at 2:45 am
Actually, I was a Hillary supporter, thanks. I am a lifelong democrat and yes, I voted for Obama in the general. I don’t get where this bot thing comes from, many of us simply agreed with his policies and not with Mccain’s. It’s that simple. One need not be brainwashed to agree with policies that simply make better sense, many republicans also saw that his policies are more sound.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:45 am
My problem with PUMAs is that they are hypocrites and liars, and the “top” of the food chain are simply republican ratf#ckers. They did quite a bit to damage Hillary’s reputation–even in the face of her asking them to stop their follishness, and so, yes, I am not a fan of their PUMA idiocy.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:49 am
very turned off: “Jen, and just the way you bullied your way into a site that stands for proud Americans is the way your cult leader bullied his way into the White House. Of course with the help of your type.”
Actually, the entire east Pittsburgh echelon of the United Obamabots Against Fascists split shortly after the infiltration.
One third took up macrame with a leftist edge, one third just kept celebrating and we haven’t seen them since, and I’m part of the rump that’s working behind the scenes on America c2c to subvert the Republican party until it quits pretending it’s the only legitimate voice of a long-dead myth of America and embraces diversity and all that kinda stuff.
You can tell us by the fact that we’re the only ones posting there that can use semi-colons correctly. It’s a secret code thing.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:50 am
and, I am “rushing” to Patrick’s defense because what his hobby may or may not be is irrelevant. Why you felt the need to even post the link is quite telling about you, sam. Petty and absurd behavior for an adult, really. If you disagree with Patrick’s views, debate the issues, don’t go for some petty personal attack. It’s just bad form.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:51 am
You can tell us by the fact that we’re the only ones posting there that can use semi-colons correctly. It’s a secret code thing.
——————————–
ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:52 am
“Real Americans” don’t use punctuation, dontcha know? And they often are quite unfamiliar with the operation of the caps-lock key…you betcha!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:54 am
Well you just don’t get it. I really can put up with anyone being president, shoot I settled for McCain to prove a point – to hold firm on what I believe in. If voting can become so corrupt and people can intimidate others in this great democratic country I have to take a stand. Yes, I was more than willing to vote for the second most qualified candidate. In fact, I would have voted for any of the republicans over the lead Bot. I am sorry but that is what I think of him. He is NOT his own man. He is smart but not even as smart as Hillary (certainly not as informed). So, naturally when the crooks chose the least qualified and most questionable candidate I wasn’t going to vote for the most popular. I can proudly say that I didn’t vote just so I can say I voted for the first black president (and don’t even get me started on that one) – I voted for the most qualified. This is not about sour grapes or poor loser. This is about common sense and realizing the problems our country faces when the people don’t have the final say in our choice. I am standing up for what is right, not to be part of a movement. I never said I was a PUMA but I understand their points of view.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 2:56 am
“Real Americans” don’t use punctuation, dontcha know? And they often are quite unfamiliar with the operation of the caps-lock key…you betcha!”
This news may lead to another split against our useless leaders who have so incompetently led us into a GOP trap.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 2:57 am
Actually, the PUMAs claim to be democrats and claim to support all the policies of Obama, they just hate the guy and think he’s the anti-christ because he “stole” the primary from Hillary. You actually support that kind of follishness?
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 2:59 am
Astonishing how a bot can sound so innocent and logical in one comment, and fall into the slime the next. Must be hard to keep standing on that one toe.
roofingbird
18 November 2008 at 3:00 am
Jenny sed
You can tell us by the fact that we’re the only ones posting there that can use half an asshole correctly.
KPFT listener
18 November 2008 at 3:01 am
and VTO- You think McCain was more qualified, the better choice. I disagree. Welcome to democracy. Those of us who voted for Obama are not all brainwashed, we just have differing political views than you do…welcome to America.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:02 am
And it seems more of America agrees with the liberal “fake American” view…so where does that leave the republican party and their culture war politics? Somewhere on the minority fringe, I’d say. Even Colin Powell had to walk away…
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:05 am
roofingbird… I’ve noticed that. I have tried nothing but civility and reason but it always comes back to hate and accusatory catchy lib.
NAFOP (sorry for the caps, gee wiz) Yes, I do support in what I believe in; I think that’s called self-conviction. The fight has to begin with many battles before it can be won. Oh, and it will be won bots. Another fact is that you all are as arrogant as your leader. It’s really quite the turn-off.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 3:06 am
and you talk about PUMA’s being racist. Get a load of that, even black republicans were voting for their Bot. Rice and Powell, give me a break. I really was not surprised by their choice – I expected it. I can relate to their pride. What is so turncoat about the PUMA’s to have pride in their “Lady”? Double standard.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 3:10 am
Oh my, we are arrogant. Take a listen to right wing talk radio and then lets discuss who is arrogant. My Lord. The Republicans had 8 years and they’ve done a bang-up job of making just about everything in this nation FUBAR. Luckily, Rove’s cutlure war devisive politics have finally imploded in his face and it seems he may have delivered the death blow to his own party–rendering it ready for the dustbin of history. Thank you kindly Karl Rove.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:10 am
and you talk about PUMA’s being racist. Get a load of that, even black republicans were voting for their Bot. Rice and Powell, give me a break. I really was not surprised by their choice – I expected it. I can relate to their pride. What is so turncoat about the PUMA’s to have pride in their “Lady”? Double standard.
—————————————–
Their “lady” actually asked them to stop, and then denounced them in the press!!! They’ve since thrown her under the bus as well.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:12 am
Duhhh, she had to. Where did you think she would end up if she came out for McCain? Do you really think the Clintons wanted BO to win? No, you didn’t. Now you can’t be that stupid. Even those who like the Clintons know this about them.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 3:15 am
Obama hung out with mad bombers from the sixties.
McCain was a mad bomber from the sixties.
The thing about the real America that McCain never picked up on, is how we real Americans in Texas would have reacted if he were bombing us, and was shot down.
The best he could hope for, is that we shot him in the head, before feeding him to the hogs.
That would not happen.
We don’t appreciate assholes murdering our children with napalm, so if he crashed in Texas, we would feed him to the hogs one ounce of flesh at a time,and there is no fucking way we would trade him off in a prisoner exchange.
KPFT listener
18 November 2008 at 3:16 am
I wouldn’t vote for Hillary in the future now. I would have admired her if she did run on her own.. but no, she didn’t want to ruin her political career. Now that would’ve shown some gonads.
very turned off
18 November 2008 at 3:17 am
I think the Clintons, like Obama and McCain, are politicians and can move on and did just that. She will join his administration, and I am sure they brokered that long ago. No, I do not think they wanted McCain to win, not for one second.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:18 am
“roofingbird… I’ve noticed that. I have tried nothing but civility and reason but it always comes back to hate and accusatory catchy lib.”
Ha! I call Bullshit, with a capital B:
“… sad, but they are the blind sheep.”
“Try something a bit more original, like maybe something true such as we are smarter than you because we read and follow exactly what happened. Of course if you are stupid and want to call us racist that’s fine – just more of what the BO machine was doing all along.”
“ahhhh, StrangeAppar8us… I was trying so, so hard to get a response from you. You don’t have any balls – but of course you already told us that.”
“Yes, no excuse for stupid. No excuse for the foolish selection you all made. The antichrist will come and many will believe…. aahhhhhhhhhhhhh, the fools rush in.. to believe one man can do it all with no accomplishments to boast of.”
“Time to take your meds Jen.”
“You don’t have a clue. … You are all scary and creepy individuals who cannot seem to have a little understanding as to why there are doubts.”
“Jen, Jen… what you on baby? Me think you are high on some of that mountain weed you all hold hands and sing “Obama’s gonna change the world”. Barefoot and waiting for the check in the mail.”
“I can’t convince a bot. I don’t even bother… yawn. I couldn’t even lead a bot to water if he was thirsty.”
“But the Obot sure can lead them to anywhere and they gleefully baaah, baahh all the way there.”
Civility? Reason? In your dreams, maybe. Since you said you were retiring to your bunker a few hours ago.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 3:19 am
Ah yes, Karl Rove and the woman who loves him.
http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Summer08/BrazileRoveConnect.html
roofingbird
18 November 2008 at 3:19 am
Well, he’s not destroying my party, so, more power to him!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:24 am
Recall, we won the election…
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:25 am
The problem with the Adams, and the Bushs, and the Clintons is that democracies are not ruled by families.
That’s third world Babydoc bullshit.
If Hillary Clinton was the best candidate in the universe for the job, I wouldn’t vote for her because Families should not rule nations.
We slaughtered most of the tories, 25% of the population of the US and fought the British to establish a republic that was no longer ruled by bloodlines.
KPFT listener
18 November 2008 at 3:27 am
Not to mention that thecityedition is NOT a news outlet…and they don’t believe in sources or facts most of the time.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:27 am
If Hillary had been the best candidate, she would have won the primary. I give her credit for doing so well and for fighting so hard, but they ran a terrible campaign until about March, and that is why she lost.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:30 am
A comedy gold!
What a meltdown, PUMAs are turning into a parody of themselves.
PUMAs, the next time you’d try to pose like Democrats, learn to act at least approximately like ones, else all your efforts would have a negative impact on undecided, skeptical voters – again.
Currently you act like war and fear mongering, gun tottering, bible trumping, delusional radical conservatives. I read your blog out of curiosity, don’t make me quote from it .
The best part of KFPT show when Jennifer – a supposed die-hard Hillary supporter – answered to a caller which reminded her that Hillary asked them to stop, explained they’ve “moved beyond Hillary”.
Your credibility equals to credibility of those hoaxers and nutsacks (like API, Berg and Donofrio) that you support at theirs “revelations of truth” so zealously. Keep on throwing horse manure against Obama, soon you’ll realize how badly you stink on it.
Citizen Cane
18 November 2008 at 3:31 am
A comedy gold!
What a meltdown, PUMAs are turning into a parody of themselves.
PUMAs, the next time you’d try to pose like Democrats, learn to act at least approximately like ones, else all your efforts would have a negative impact on undecided, skeptical voters – again.
Currently you act like war and fear mongering, gun tottering, bible trumping, delusional radical conservatives. I read your blog out of curiosity, don’t make me quote from it .
The best part of KFPT show when Jennifer – a supposed die-hard Hillary supporter – answered to a caller which reminded her that Hillary asked them to stop, explained they’ve “moved beyond Hillary”.
Your credibility equals to credibility of those hoaxers and nutsacks (like API, Berg and Donofrio) that you support at theirs “revelations of truth” so zealously. Keep on throwing horse manure against Obama, soon you’ll realize how badly you stink on it.
Citizen Cane
18 November 2008 at 3:31 am
And Obama ran an impeccable political campaign, the likes of which we’ve just never seen from a strategy and organizational standpoint!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:32 am
Go home, Jenny, you got your shot, and it ended up in your foot.
KPFT listener
18 November 2008 at 3:32 am
You don’t think that is what happened? A party split in half? The general election votes were what 52-49%, in a year that should have been much higher? Woe is you.
roofingbird
18 November 2008 at 3:33 am
roofingbird– you seem to forget that electoral votes actually are all that count, and republicans just don’t have the states to pull it off anymore. Period.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:37 am
The author of that article roofingbird linked to said in February 2008:
“My concern is that Obama has campaigned and voted way too far to the left and that some of his leftwing endorsements will allow the GOP to salivate putting the L label on him and that some of his less known hx in Chicago will be the new Whitewater (only not debunked) and that McCain will campaign against him and paint it as the Statesman vs. the Kid with No Experience. I see a bloodbatgh.
He has indeed fared poorly with critical demographics and in states Dems can’t possibly win without- CA and NJ at the top of that list. I see McCain polling so far ahead of him in the SW and CA and NJ, that he won’t even have to spend money there. Since McCain will lock up the SW and deep south, that spells landslide. I don’t know if HRC will win, but I know she at least would win NY, NJ, CA, MA, PA, FL , Kerry’s states and quite likely Ohio, NM and CO. That’s really all about she needs.
But I don’t think there’s any stopping a McCain win now.
We’re too divided and if he wins then he’ll lose to McCain big. If she wins blacks and lefties will throw a fit. We lose or we lose.
With the country in ashes after 8 years of Bush and literally on the threshold of financial meltdown, this just wasn’t how I wanted to see the election turn out.”
http://letters.salon.com/news/feature/2008/02/11/dem_campaign/view/index51.html
And KPFT Listener, my foot’s just dandy, thanks!
Which tells you much about her agenda and her reliability.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 3:37 am
The author of that article roofingbird linked to said in February 2008:
“My concern is that Obama has campaigned and voted way too far to the left and that some of his leftwing endorsements will allow the GOP to salivate putting the L label on him and that some of his less known hx in Chicago will be the new Whitewater (only not debunked) and that McCain will campaign against him and paint it as the Statesman vs. the Kid with No Experience. I see a bloodbatgh.
He has indeed fared poorly with critical demographics and in states Dems can’t possibly win without- CA and NJ at the top of that list. I see McCain polling so far ahead of him in the SW and CA and NJ, that he won’t even have to spend money there. Since McCain will lock up the SW and deep south, that spells landslide. I don’t know if HRC will win, but I know she at least would win NY, NJ, CA, MA, PA, FL , Kerry’s states and quite likely Ohio, NM and CO. That’s really all about she needs.
But I don’t think there’s any stopping a McCain win now.
We’re too divided and if he wins then he’ll lose to McCain big. If she wins blacks and lefties will throw a fit. We lose or we lose.
With the country in ashes after 8 years of Bush and literally on the threshold of financial meltdown, this just wasn’t how I wanted to see the election turn out.”
http://letters.salon.com/news/feature/2008/02/11/dem_campaign/view/index51.html
Which tells you much about her agenda and her reliability.
And KPFT Listener, my foot’s just dandy, thanks!
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 3:39 am
Hmm- they’re not? I wonder what all those articles about sex trafficking, Benazir Bhutto, Iran, Darfur, and the Sudan were about?
roofingbird
18 November 2008 at 3:41 am
Well, is this going to be a weekly show? I hope so!
Murphy and JenniforHillary were magnificent. The outline described in the original post was hardly an accurate description of what went on during the radio broadcast.
Thersa didn’t seem to realize or understand what the 16% discrepancy in the vote totals was all about. Theresa, it basically means that when Lynette Long did the mathematical calculation, there were 16% more votes than people that voted.
If possible, I think what Jennifer is doing is a necessary Public Service making people aware (in Texas) of how their votes were manipulated to produce a specific result..
Ernesto.. You would be doing a great Public Service for Texans encouraging Jennifer to continue explaining
what went on during your Texas Primary.
ellurian
18 November 2008 at 3:43 am
Ellurian…agreed, but for the sheer comedy value of it all!!
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 3:45 am
Manipulating Primary voting is hardly comedy. It really is a travesty when you attempt trivializing Fraud and Cheating to WIN…COMEDY?
ellurian
18 November 2008 at 3:51 am
Tellurian why do you believe Lynette Long when she a) refuses to show here data, b) is a stone cold racist that thinks the dnc gave black people more delegates?
vic
18 November 2008 at 3:52 am
Well, now you are just being deliberately obtuse to get me riled. Yes, I know something about electoral votes. I’m talking about the power grab and the rending in two of the Dem Party, wherein some elements of the liberal wing, using a centrist avowed free marketer, who is now very beholden to the people that brought us the financial crisis, will have to push very hard to get done what they want. I anticipate a huge game of “Uproar” soon. Course, yet again, HIllary might save them.
roofingbird
18 November 2008 at 3:55 am
roofingbird wrote:
You don’t think that is what happened? A party split in half? The general election votes were what 52-49%, in a year that should have been much higher? Woe is you.
_______________________________
The comment above is a perfect example of PUMA’s problems with perception of reality and disregard of factual data.
Everybody can find out that general election votes were 53% – 46% and not 52% – 49%.
http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard
Sorry PUMAs, you’re living in your own parallel universe.
Citizen Cane
18 November 2008 at 4:14 am
Oh wait, PUMAs have their own, more reliable data sources – like for instance API.
Citizen Cane
18 November 2008 at 4:20 am
I just love it how these GOP hacks and Palin were so rabidly pushing the “ZOMG!!! he’s a mooslim terrist who wasn’t born in the USA” and other half-assed memes along with the collusion of Faux News and some of the gutter press, and they then have the gall to moan that Obama didn’t win by a larger margin!
BTW, 538.com puts the tally to date at 52.3% Obama/Biden, 46.2% McCain/Palin. Obama/Biden won 83% of Clinton voters, and picked up a whole scad more from Independents and undecideds, not to mention the saner sections of the GOP, that vastly made up for any shortfall.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 4:28 am
They still claim they moved over 10 million Hillary voters over to become PUMAs and vote Mccain…it’s hysterical! They just REFUSE to look at facts about anything that disagrees with their PUMA generated fantasy world.
not a fan of puma
18 November 2008 at 4:39 am
Then there’s another thing that’s been bugging me.
Where were all these people now frothing over allegations of irregularities in the 2008 primaries when Bush and Rove and the MSM and Diebold stole TWO elections in a row?! And i’m supposed to believe so many of these people were one-time Democrats? Please.
Forgive me if I’m cynical about their sudden concern for the Constitution and democratic principles. If their guy wins, it’s all gravy.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 5:11 am
PUMA are the new Paultards.
chowkster
18 November 2008 at 6:07 am
Yes, I went there.
chowkster
18 November 2008 at 6:12 am
Sam – You’re so funny when you think you’re being cute. It just shows I was right – you had no substance to your opinions.
Which really is a very strong PUMA trait, one they picked up quite well from their right-wing allies – when you can’t defend your belief, attack the person rather than their opinions.
Patrick McKinnion
18 November 2008 at 7:10 am
@Ernesto
Do they not know, for example, that a political party is free to choose its candidates however it sees fit?
If that were true (and it is not – check the law) then why go through the travesti of a primary election? Why give the people the illusion their votes count for anything? Why pretend it’s a democratic process?
edgeoforever
18 November 2008 at 7:30 am
“A top Hillary Clinton adviser on Saturday boldly predicted his candidate would lock down the nomination before the August convention by definitively winning over party insiders and officials known as superdelegates, claiming the number of state elections won by rival Barack Obama would be ‘irrelevant’ to their decision.
The claims no doubt will escalate the war of words between the campaigns, as Obama continues to argue superdelegates should vote the way of their districts. But the special class of delegates, which make up about 20 percent of the total delegate haul, are not bound to vote the way of their states and districts, as pledged delegates are.
Obama leads handily in the pledged delegate count and has won more states but trails Clinton in superdelegates, making them potential and controversial deadlock-breakers if the race ends up a dead heat come convention time.
Harold Ickes, a 40-year party operative charged with winning over superdelegates for the Clinton campaign, made no apologies on Saturday for the campaign’s convention strategy.
‘We’re going to win this nomination,’ Ickes said, adding that they would do so soon after the last contest on June 7 in Puerto Rico. ‘You’re not going to see this go to the convention floor.’
Ickes predicted Clinton and Obama would run ‘neck and neck’ in the remaining states and that there would be a ‘minuscule amount of difference’ between the two in pledged delegates.
But he said superdelegates — who ‘have a sense of what it takes to get elected’ — would determine the outcome and side in larger numbers for Clinton.
Even though averages of head-to-head polls on RealClearPolitics.com show Obama beating presumptive GOP nominee John McCain in a general election and Clinton losing, the Clinton camp is stressing the electability argument.
Ickes said superdelegates must ‘exercise their best judgment’ about who can win the White House.
In essence, he argued the party’s 795 superdelegates (Connecticut Independent-Democrat Sen. Joe Lieberman recently was stripped of his superdelegate status) were in a better position to assess electability and suitability for the presidency than party regulars who will attend the national convention in late August as pledged delegates.”
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/02/16/top-clinton-adviser-says-superdelegates-will-decide-election-obamas-victories-irrelevant/all-comments/
It’s only a travesty when you lose, apparently.
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 7:42 am
Ha! Reach for those crumpled tinfoil hats, PUMAs – Fox News has now scrubbed that story I linked to (old Favorite). I wonder why …
But all is not lost. Follow this link and read whatever flavor of media outlet that takes your fancy that carried the same story:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22Harold+Ickes%22+superdelegates&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Jenny
18 November 2008 at 7:58 am
Dear Vic,
you really are a poor poker player.
Here is Lynette Long’s “Caucus Fraud” site.
It all there and well documented. I suggest you do yourself a favor and come armed with proof when you feel the need to accuse people of unsubstantiated claims.
http://www.lynettelong.com/caucusfraud/statistics/
http://www.lynettelong.com/2008_Caucus_injustices_FINAL.pdf
ellurian
18 November 2008 at 8:15 am